Fishing the San Juan Islands: Insider's Guide with Darrin Small

0:00 welcome to the fishing Fair reason podcast I have one of my other favorite humans on today Darren small is here to give you guys a bunch of Derby gold bombs and you'll see what I mean here in about a minute but before we get started for people who don't know who you are we call you black dog give us your fishing background how long have you been fishing how' you been the sport well welcome thank you for having me I've been fishing since I'm nine or 10 years old I grew up fishing Puget Sound you know I live in Edmonds for a long time had my boat down there Edmonds Marina so I kind of got that dialed in fished a ton up down there for shinook and coo and anything else we crabbed and did a little bit of shrimping down there so got I retired came up here to the San

0:47 wans and here I am so I've been fishing for a long time and uh still trying to figure this place out but I think all in all it's um a great place to fish up here and here we are so it's kind of funny that you say you're still trying to figure this place out and yet you've won one of the most iconic deres in our area hm I think you haven't figured out well you know I I believe that Derby's are 80% luck and maybe 20% skill you know and anybody can go fish fish a derby and win it and so I was just very fortunate to win a couple up here and there's a big one coming up in a couple weeks as well as you know so we're going to be out there trying to win number three so how's that so I love it I love it so other question I have is you mentioned that you fished for a very long time got a boat was an Edmond's area but what actually got you into

1:33 fishing my you know my dad my dad passed away but he'd take us fishing I think I caught my first salmon um on Jeff head I think I was eight or nine years old and I was pretty hooked then and God love him he wasn't a very good fisherman but every once in a while we CCH a fish you know what I'm finding out maybe it's because today you got Dan riggers and more you know better gear which is probably true I shouldn't throw him under the bus all the time but he' tried I'd tell you but there there' be Motor problems and he just you know he he had his good days but we sometimes go out and come back in because maybe the boat wasn't running good or something and but so that's my background I grew up with you know in North Seattle and and we fished the pach sound dad had an old glass ply I think the 16 foot glass ply

2:19 with a 55 horse Johnson that which I remember was just always not running right but we we'd get out there so no kicker I mean we know what a kicker was back then you know um yeah yeah so that's that's pretty much my background I started fishing again right out of high school with a friend of mine took me out and caught a couple fish and I was hooked I bought a little boat and then got bigger boats and bigger boats so now we have a a nice hug craft 24ot Pacific Cruiser and the name of the black dog so if you see us out there give us you know give us a yell so I love it what was your first boat it was a 14 foot Livingston yes best boat ever I miss it yeah and so what I had on that little thing is I had two electric downriggers like a 40 horse well way

3:06 overpowered Mercury 40 horse on a 14 with a little center console and we we zipped around all over the place and that was that's what got really started you know so we took it up to Canada a couple times and that really so then we started getting a little bigger a little bigger and so here we are now yeah so okay so I have to touch on this because one of the common things I get is I don't have a big enough boat to do that kind of fishing I think you just debunked that right there if you've been hauling that thing around like what would you say to somebody who's kind of afraid to take a small boat out you gota watch the weather for sure I mean there's a lot of guys take small boats up to CQ I was up at neab Bay a couple weeks ago and there's guys up there in 14f Footers you know smaller even than my Livingston at the time so just be careful watch the weather obviously wear your light preserver all the time but

3:52 yeah you can get out there and and just watch it though I wouldn't go out in ocean with one but you know if you're out FR of CQ or P sound no problem just make sure it's a good weather day and you should be fine wind picks up go in don't try to be a hero out there so yeah it's a blast a smaller boat because you got a perspective you're right on the water you know and so when you get that hit it's you're right there like in my boat you got to run over there and do all kinds of stuff you know how it is on a bigger boat but when you're in a little boat it's it's a different perspective for sure that's awesome I love it so what made you fall in love with the actual sport and is salmon your go-to or do you like all saltwater species you know Salmon's of course my go-to but I had a pretty good halit season this year and so that's a little bit of Addicting too I'm kind of waiting

4:38 for that to open up so but Sam's my go-to for sure but you know nothing better catching the big hit too I tell you you know that it's like oh yeah yeah it's it's it's pretty cool so but yeah Sam for sure so we kind of touched on it a little bit ago about you fishing a derby I want to flash back to your first derby what was your first fishing derby what was it and what made you sign up well I think my first first sammon derby was in um Edmonds coo Derby obviously I lived in Edmonds we fished it I brought my son and he was about I think he was like seven or eight years old I think and he won second place in the kids Division

5:25 and he thought that was the coolest thing ever so I'm thinking to myself hey maybe he'll be hook and be able to fish you know all the time with me yeah not so much my kid likes to sleep more than he likes to fish I love he'll come with me once in a while but it has to be good fishing so I think it was the Edmond's Co Way Way like one of the first or second ones they've ever had and they've been going a long time probably I don't know 15 or 20 years ago probably wow okay so he he W basically placed the very first derby yeah yeah he still got the trophy I got the trophy somewhere I I hope he didn't throw that away but he was so embarrassed to go up there you know he had to walk up there there's hundreds of people and he had to ask what they CAU it on and everything and I I don't remember what he said but he got the trophy and left but it was pretty cool so after that then we'd fish that

6:11 Derby every year was kind of like a annual tradition in our family but yeah it's other so I I took him a couple years ago he's like 25 now brought his blanket and his pillow just like he did when he was nine years old that's a joke it was uh call that a boat nap y then I took a picture this is my crew you know my wife is with me you know down below you know so hey Griffin you got a fish on you get out reel it in and go back to sleep it's just yeah yeah but we've been fishing the deres then we started fishing the ever coo Derby and then all the Blackmouth Derby's down there ever used to have a Blackmouth Derby that was a lot of fun and I mean there's all kinds of derbies that we PSA would have our little Derbies down there when I was the PSA member for snow King

6:58 and so we went a couple of those and uh yeah I just the camarad der's it's it's a blast and I missed them up here as well as you know as all the since because we haven't had a big Derby up here since they shut us all down up here that's the reason why I moved up here the fish up here right but it's still great so we're bringing back this Resurrection Derby and we're quite excited for it so tell me a little bit of history about your Resurrection like when did you fish your first resurrection do you remember and what's that look like for you it wasn't my first fishing derby up here was the anoris Sal okay yep y I actually I was in the garage the other day and I ran by a sticker that I have and it's I think 2012 maybe or something and we didn't we didn't we CAU some fish but we didn't ever place or anything and then I just kept on fishing

7:43 it and fishing it and trying to figure it out and finally we came up for 2018 and we got third place in it and I really thought that was a big deal I mean it was like Wow third place in this big Derby it was great you know me and my friend Trace we were up I think we cut it up off a sushia in the Hummer hole if you ever heard of that up there yeah yeah and we were actually fishing Parker reef and we nothing was going on there was a million boats so we just kind of went up around and I heard about this spot hey let's just go up there and check it out and sure enough we hooked two fish right and we got there and I think we came back to the weighin and they were still setting up the tables I think we were back so quick and I think it was like a 16 I think 1634 and then

8:30 Trace was like a 12 or something and we came back there and just sat for the rest of the day I mean that was it you know we were done you know that's when you could only have one fish and then Sunday we went out and it's was just like it pretty tough to concentrate to go back out on Sunday when you know you got a good one in them so we won't try some spots but that was the first big Derby that I've actually placed that's that meant something and then 2019 that's a crazy story in itself sat day and we didn't do very good we caught some small ones maybe a few shakers then we went back up to Parker reef and we're fishing Point Thompson I think it is right before Parker Reef there's there's big rock right there and I hooked one before and I lost it I didn't know how big that was that was a nice one and then maybe 15 20 minutes later I

9:15 hooked it again and boy that was it and then it took us 10 or 15 minutes to get this thing in it came out to be 1854 nice I I threw it in the Box shut the lid didn't want to look at it and then Trace was trying to get him on right and I start looking at the time oh crap we should probably get going you know and I don't know what the weather was cuz the weather was really bad that night before and we made it up there and sure enough there's we go across Rosario and there's like four-f Footers I'm going oh man we're going to miss this s in and with this fish right so I had a a huge craft Ocean Pro and I had that thing probably as fast as it would go in that big water yeah so we get we get we pull in the cap San and we have like nine or eight minutes to spare and actually running down the the dock and people are

10:03 going oh man that's it that's the winner and a friend of mine now Nick py he was like couldn't believe it because he thought he had it in the bag and and I wasn't I didn't know Nick at the time he's a good friend of mine now but it was like he just couldn't believe it and just you know so and so that won the $10,000 and it was like that was crazy that was a crazy crazy day but yeah it was just like I said before 80% of it luck and I think 20% of it skill I mean I mean anybody could have caught that fish but hey you know right place at the right time I think so it was cool that's awesome um yeah it's like it breaks one Fisherman's heart yeah hey you know when I the best day ever for you when I had that third place fish I thought for sure you know I got railed like that too I was just like you know I

10:48 think Jason squib came in and he had like an 18 I me he blew me out of the water and won that Derby I believe and I don't know who who won second I can't remember who won second in 2018 but yeah it was I know the feeling man I know exactly how to get how you get bumped so yeah but that's that's the whole idea of having deres and that you know the the adrenaline you get from all this stuff because you you don't know someone could come in last minute to bump you out you know and it happens all the time so yeah or it might be your moment right it's like the whole time has this different energy than a regular day of fishing it does it does yep and so you know that's why when I'm out there with my wife and she's catching all the fish cuz she's been on the hot hand lately obviously and it's just great for her it's just

11:33 great for everybody to see and everybody's out there and all your friends are out there it's just a good time it really is so if somebody's listening to this and maybe they even haven't considered doing a derby before what would you recommend or what advice would you give somebody in that camp well I would look at the tides see kind of get a game plan up here in the San Juans there's a 100,000 places you can go to catch fish and that Derby winning fish could be on any point at at any time and we'll be fishing in the resurrection this year the shenck will be caught in Bellingham I would just look at the tides make sure your hooks are sharp sharp sharp put a new hook on every time I mean because that you want every chance to to hook that fish you want it just laser sharp check your leaders check all your gear make sure

12:19 your boat's running good make sure your downrigger Cable is all good everything that so you don't have any problems you know when you're out there and talk to people too some people on Derby's won't say anything but other people might you know but the best of all most things have fun don't take it too seriously because it it won't be any fun after that because I've noticed I've tooken it too seriously I'm a little bit competitive as you know and it's not worth it it's just fun have fun with it and just and just you know have a blast and and you'll catch fish I love it I love it and also so this Derby is coming up August 16th and 17th here in the sanan islands and traditionally it was a winter Derby so luckily we're not going to have to fight those crazy situations hopefully freeze our butt off yeah yeah how are you fishing it what are what are

13:04 your thoughts what are you going to use where are you going to go obviously Bingham Bay but yeah yeah I'm gonna probably get out there really early and I looked at the tide but I probably start at that red can at Sinclair and fish that side and then if that doesn't go on then I'll see what the Tide's doing I'll probably go over to lumy rocks with everybody else fish all the way up maybe to the fish pins that's the North End of the island there should be some coost in there too so I mean lot one thing about Bellingham Bay is that you don't have to drag the bottom they're always suspended so don't be afraid to come up and fish 60 feet or go down to 150 I mean stagger him a little bit see what's going on and it's hit and miss there if there's a bunch of fish in one side it might not be a fish bunch of fish down in the South End just kind of

13:51 figure it out and and don't be afraid to try new things spoons and hoochies usually work pretty good I brought a couple this is my go-to uh Blinky flasher it'll come up to co killers are really good there you mind showing those up a little higher for those of you that are listening to the podcast if you click on the link in the show notes this will and and put them like right by the camera a little bit up higher oh yeah right there there you go perfect you guys can watch this on YouTube to see these actual colors if you want to just copy Darren's plan who has won the resurrection Derby in the past what's your leader length what's your go-to well these guys on the cooh killers and the spoons I like to run long leaders 48 in I know they're it's a pin a but a net one a fish with a long leader but I find

14:37 out a little bit is that for some reason the longer leader for me works better doesn't mean you can't run them short either but that's one of the couple things that I like to use um another thing is this silver horde needle fish is that high enough oh yeah that's perfect yep yep that's that can work really good some of the tricks I've done is put a piece of Herring strip on the end of that and the back of that you know just which one which hook do you put it on for people that don't know the back trailing hook back hook the trailing hook yeah I've got on both but the trailing Hook is good and this was the spoon that I got the third place fish on in 18 oh yeah yeah it's this guy he's on my wall but this is another one so but yeah gForce what is that GeForce

15:22 gForce it's called the sea ghost the sea ghost gForce sea ghost from Gibbs yeah Gibbs makes yeah giv gives Delta yeah yep so those are some stuff my wife she'll run her own thing she does her own tackle but that's this was her favorite this chrome co- killer that's and she likes to run that in Billingham Bay and she's done well on that but yeah those are some of the things I think to start out with I I would recommend that you'd run at least 30 or 40 pound lader because there's some big snook in here and boy you don't want to lose a big a big one without you know if you snap a 25 pound test leader because it's there's some big fish in Billingham Bay there's always has been and I I would be very I'd be surprised if a 25 pounder

16:08 will win this thing I'm pretty sure yeah it's gonna be a lot of freaking fun yeah it's gonna be a blast I'm excited both Darren and I are in the Puget Sound Anglers club and it's put on by puet sound Anglers it's a completely nonprofit organization all proceeds go to the nonprofit helps with kids Scholarships in fact one of our scholarship winners is going to be at the Derby which is so exciting yeah um she's going to come out and share a little bit about how much this has helped her so if you really want to be part of a good cause and have a great time and maybe win 10 grand honestly I don't see a downside I don't either no I I'm you know I'm sure the weather will be amazing because it's August right you know maybe some fog or something but it's nothing that can't handle um but yeah keep my fingers crossed we're excited to um to do it I got some family

16:54 coming in from Oregon that's never caught a salmon before so we're excited about that having um them coming up and experience this p&w up here in the Pacific Northwest it's great well and really even to fish your first time in a derby how exciting is that right yeah yeah I don't think they know what they're getting into really yeah we're excited about that hope everybody can come out and if they see me go by say hi and say hi and just follow his boat don't follow me follow uh follow Scott and Jamie they're pretty good too you know so you can follow me all you want but don't you know this podcast is really a cool thing you're doing and we're excited to you know keep it going this is be wonderful it's awesome so I'm totally gonna switch

17:39 gears on you thank you so much for talking about the resurrection we need to talk about coo I keep getting people that reach out to me asking for tips and ideas of how to actually go Target co-host specifically now that our opportunity to catch Kings is not as abundant as coo yeah we have one more day in our King opener they did give us one more day on Sunday that' be what August 4th was it 4th any it's coming Sunday so they did give us one more day we'll take what we can get so but after that it's almost time to turn to coo but yeah what do you want to know what what do you want to start first so if you're all right with it I'd like to read his exact question to you is that okay cool so he just said hey I'm gearing up for Silvers and I'm gearing up for the upcoming hit season however I really

18:25 want to Target Silvers do you have any tips what's the best St will I will divers work I do have downriggers color of lures hoochie basically he wants to specifically go for coo what should he do yep well I would if starting out I would use a downrigger they're just a lot easier to to use divers are fun on the top line but if you're use if you're going to use a diver I'd put four ounces of lead on it because that's a lot easier than those divers you know I'm not knocking those divers they work but you can use a downrigger that's probably a good start I'd run 12 or 15 pound balls for the gear I'm a hoochie guy I love the fish hoochies flasher squid for coo I'll use any of these type of same

19:11 thing for chanook I showed you earlier these uh go prot trol Blinky flashers are pretty good okay gotta ask you a question interrupting you why Blinky what do you love about the Blinky you know I think the co-host I just think these blinkies trigger a bite better when they see that light a lot of guys don't you know know would argue with me and that's fine that's their project whatever but these guys when when you get a a brand new Blinky in here it's just it's crazy in the water you see this thing blinking right and coo they're feisty they're cous they want to they're not like a big shuck sometimes they get into everything they're like a puppy dog yeah you know they want to see stuff going on right so I would use one of these I'd run one of these squids just a what is are what kind of squid are these they're 3.5 squids put a skirt

19:58 in there I don't have any skirts with that look oh yeah or you can also put one of these ace high flies inside of the squid oh that's a good idea so my wife loves to do that and that kind of gives it more bling you know and then I run my leader short I run at least up here if I'm fishing Eagle Point for coo or something I will run 32 in laders with about a 50 pound liter length or yeah okay yeah got it so 50 pound a liter and then 32 in off the back 32 in off the back so it's really whipping so it's really whipping back and forth but the thing that a lot of people don't do is I I put a herring strip on that and that's that's that's huge I mean that's I've I can't express enough to salt up

20:45 some Herring cut them into like halves or three4 and just put a piece on the front hook on that time on the front hook on the front hook okay yeah yeah yep so and then run it I'd say 25 feet off the downward a lot of guys run it closer but I run mine like 20 25 feet back 80 to 90 Feet's usually the best for me the best depth for Co for trolling yeah and trolling I'm trolling about two eight to three miles an hour a little faster for uh coo than chanook and everybody probably knows that but so what kind of angle on your downrigger line generally are you tar 45 degrees Yeah okay I've been running 18 pound balls lately and I like them because up here in the currents up in the islands it's it helps but 12 to 15 is probably

21:30 it's fine but that is one of my go-tos and then also these coo killers they don't call them Co Killers or nothing they work they do the job too and again a little bit longer leader 38 inches maybe 40 a longer yeah that those are the my go-to I'm not much of a big bait fisherman like you are which is because I know bait's been good too but I just for some reason have more patience with spoons and flashers but you know cut plug hering it's hard to beat as well yep so another question I would like to know is can you walk me through your actual process when you do your Herring strips like are you doing it the night before the day of whole Herring on salt like what does that look like yeah so I'll I'll get a dozen Herring the night

22:16 before I'll cut them what size Herring uh it doesn't matter okay you know because you're just taking the body so I'll like I'll cut the head off like your cut plugging it then I'll take my knife and I'll go right like make a fillet turn it over make another fillet then I'll then get rid of whatever's left and then now I have two fillet strips I cut them in half again and then I cut them then I chop them what horizontal back yeah and so I have a small little like almost like a bow tie gotcha yeah and I I don't have it too much just enough it's just enough you know and if you have a little bit too big that'll work for these coo it doesn't I don't think it really it's not a rocket science you just make sure you stick it on there enough it'll stay on

23:02 there you want to find a nice piece of the bone that that sticks in there so you can fish it for 15 or 20 minutes then you always got to check because they do fall off and then you'll catch fish without the strip as well but I just seem to think a herring strip helps a lot you just put it in a plastic bag night before with some salt absolutely yep yep any kind of salt that you care about or whatever just anodized salt whatever you use to smoke your fish in y it's just as long as they get a little hard or rock salt that'll work but yeah so that's probably use how I do my Herring all depends and then I I I'll put them in a container and if I'm fishing two or three days in a row I'll just leave them in there they don't go bad they might go bad in a a couple weeks I found that on accident before but what's that smell yeah yeah yeah and

23:50 my wife goes you're just gonna throw that whole container away right you're not going to try to save that container but did you try to save the container or did you throw it away oh I have to throw it away yeah doesn't yeah but you know you can fish those strips three or four days I probably wouldn't go any farther than that then throw them out but and then start over because it's not that big of a deal to do another fresh batch you know so when you rig up your strips I'm just thinking of like pretend I know nothing okay do you rig it like it's flat hook in or do you go like this and hook it so it's bow TI how do you do that rigging it in the front so you pull your skirt and your squid up from your I'm assuming you have two hooks and I put on the top I just put it it's kind of tucked in in here so it's kind of it's not out here because

24:35 some guys run their their hooks a little bit long up here it's just like a little scent they like that for some reason and you can put smelly jelly and all that stuff too that works too but you know after a while your squids get kind of nasty and you have to kind of throw them away so it's just if you use the Herring strips it's much better I think I even stop using hering um scent because I used to buy it and but it goes bad and I didn't know that somebody told me that and I've had no wor I'm not catching any fish no it's like I've been using this Stu you I looked at the date because they have a date I like I've had that for three years like oh yeah yeah I would have thrown that away like two years ago like okay yeah so somebody told me that but yeah so that's how basically I run that sounds great I think that's some awesome tips for somebody once to get started go out there at Eagle Point get yourself rigged up and go kill some coo but let's

25:22 transition down south since I know you fish that for years yeah and we've got a COO Derby I believe let me pull it up real quick the Edmonds co-ho Derby is September 7th the Everett co-o Derby is September 21st and 22nd yeah so where are you fishing how are you preparing so there's what I've been fishing that for a long time and there's three spots that I would recommend so and all depends on um an area 82 if I don't know I haven't looked this I haven't looked at the RS yet but they'll let you fish that now I think and it might only be a only but for some reason that shipwreck area they always there's always a big fish that wins caught from the Shipwreck all the

26:07 way up in the brown spay there's always some big hook noes in there we fished that last year on a real nasty day the first day last year at the Everett cooh Derby my wife and I and we CAU a lot of fish but nothing big but there's always a couple big fish in there okay so on Sunday much nicer day we were on the west side of possession bar by a scagg head buo at Green Buy on the west side of possession on an outgoing tide and me and about 500 of my other fishing buddies are out there and we fished 90 to 120 and we just fished probably a mile up and a mile back the whole time and we caught fish after fish and we waited and waited and finally my wife hooked a Dandy and we got it and she took fifth place so that was pretty cool

26:54 but that West Side can be very good I think a lot of those big snow homish coo are coming through there and that's another great place to go if I was going to go there and I will and you'll see me there because I think we're going to fish it again this year but that's and then off so and then if not I'd go out straight out at at the Port of Edmonds and about 600 feet of water and fish the uh the tide rips out there there's always a lot of fish out there and there's a few big ones out there as well and you fish that all the way down to the oil docks back and forth and you see everybody else doing the same thing so it's not a secet none of these places are secrets see every you're going to see the same amount of boats same places every time right those are my top three that I would where I'll be at On That

27:40 September Edmonds co- Derby the Edmonds one awesome y so another question for you what's it like to to fight a COO for someone who's never done it before oh they're a blast they take line they jump they dance they're just they're nasty and once you get a big hook nose and you catch a big hook nose man you are hooked it's a a gener the juices are flowing I tell you it's a lot of fun you know they I like to eat coo almost as good as I love the eat coo too they're a great table Fair fish but yeah they're fun to catch they're also a lot of fun without on the downrigger when you're just for fishing we have a top Rod that we put out with 4 ounces and a cut PL hair and we'll do that and when that top rod goes off it's just like hold on because they hit like Gang Busters you know so they're a lot of fun they are and I

28:26 think that's what's so cool about coo is I mean I've brought my gear up had it laying on top of the water doing something else and a freaking goo hits it like there's so much fun yeah so up here when we Fish Eagle Point for coo there are some big coo up there up here and we're so happy this year that we get the fish for him and they're giving you two fishes this year and one can be a Hatcher or yeah one can be a native I think so we're excited that's super fun too because when you're fishing Eagle Point there's shinook up there and there's coo up there and you don't know what you're going to catch I remember one time we were out and we caught a Sockeye a king a COO all the same day that was pretty cool I thought that's awesome right at the point there but yeah but back to the deries Edmonds is a well-known Co Derby they've been doing

29:11 it for a long time and they have it dialed and that's another great family and and I tell you what obviously coo are way easier to catch than shinuk and so it's better for the family that they're all going to get to catch a fish you lose one all right no big deal you're probably going to catch another one so it's not a bad way to take the family just kind of like when you're going pink fishing for the kids it's fun and that's the whole idea about it bring your family into it get him excited have that eight-year-old up there win second place and uh yeah exactly it's funny I I gotta ask him about that I wonder he remembers it but he's always ask me about hey are we gonna fish so he has come with me a few times yeah he doesn't sleep all the time I mean come on I love it I love it well thank you so much for coming on here and giving people some advice any final words for

29:57 listeners that you would like to share if you don't know about fishing and you want to get into this sport join PSA or Anglers and limited there's so much knowledge if you want to learn how to do something join that club if you want to learn how to fish up here or down there and there's other chapters in the PSA if you're down south you could go to snow king or come up here to the San Juan Island chapter or down Way South the South Sound there's a lot of chapters and a lot of PSA and there's a lot of knowledge and if you're just starting out feel free to contact you or you can ask me or whatever but yeah just get the family out fishing and and go have some fun this is a great place we live in we you should take advantage of it absolutely there's nothing better than catching your best tasting meal ever yeah with

30:42 the people you like the best that's right exactly exactly yeah yeah so I hope good luck to everybody that goes in the to the derby and I hope we get to see out there and give me a wave or something and I'll wave back unless I got a fish on and then maybe not but no I'm just kidding so anyway but thank you thanks Darren this has been fantastic thank you so much for sharing your knowledge talk to you later bye bye