Jingle Jangle: A Christmas Journey (2020) dir. David E. Talbert | Showgays

0:00 [Music] [Applause] [Music] no no no no no no no no no no I'm gonna make it work again trying to make it work again what the [ __ ] they got RJC this two times in his life um because he knows the songs he's familiar he's

0:52 in fact so much so let me tell you Molly he did not take a note I did not he said not for me I won't take a note because I did a whole podcast about it RJ has already done a podcast about this film I know we'll explain more in a little bit okay it's been a few weeks RJ's been to the Philippines and back he's still jet-lagged how are you doing we don't talk about RJ how are you doing yeah I'm important to hear about any of his trip I'm in an Uno reverse card that question because Rita informed me the last time that we talked that she feels like there is this like great um lingering question on the podcast because YouTube talked about the fact that you were looking at apartments but you never updated us about living on the

1:38 street we're living on the street okay background there but it's got 16 square feet um he needs stunning polyurethane what does he need for his toy because it's stuck under the bar I will I will yeah so it's funny because when we recorded nine we were already in our new apartment and we I guess we didn't discuss about it yes we've moved to a new apartment we are in the Uptown neighborhood it's a very nice building it was it's like a not refurbished what is the word good in renovated gutted and renovated like building that they turned into like an old Warehouse oh it's very nice so if you want to give everyone your address yeah they're The Lofts on Clark um

2:24 Clark's a small street but Clark is famously a small Street in Chicago yeah sure it's a short Street yeah not the Wrigley Field for sure we are in Wrigley Field that's where it is we live in Wrigley yeah are you happy with your new apartment I think it's the real question yes just asked me this today oh because I drove my our realtor that we used to find us the apartment he I drove him to an office party today and he said how do you like it and I said the or we technically drove past our old apartment and so he was like what do you mean and I said the one thing I miss is the size of the bedroom because right now it really is just the best it is I'd be for that because I'm a like in my

3:10 ideal world I want to just use my bedroom for sleeping on that sure you know what I mean so like I don't want room for anything else I want more room in the living room so that I can do like my office my sitting like put all of that out in the living space I I agree with that sentiment I think like because on our last apartment we had a huge bedroom that I felt we I we had a bedroom that was equal square footage to the living room it was just like a wall in the middle so I felt the need to like do like have more things in the bedroom because there was just room for it but back in Orlando the bedroom was just the bedroom that's true that's true so and that's kind of how I prefer it to but honestly everything else maybe the elevator that's the only other thing I missed because I hate walking upstairs what floor are you on we're only on three but they're all Lofts so we're

3:56 really on like the fourth floor in a real world situation it kind of sucks but I'm getting better I don't have to take an inhaler puff every time just sometimes just sometimes yeah so it's good getting in your steps for the day so Rita there's your update it's we're doing great we're doing great she appreciate it I think the only thing is that because it is a new building everyone is a new tenant so they're still like everyone's figuring out how loud we can be dogs all the dogs are still getting used to it so there's still a lot of barking happening yeah um just stuff like that that I think you know will just come with the time yeah yeah Molly how is San Diego she's gorgeous she's gorgeous she's 60

4:42 degrees in December that is gorgeous yeah that's absolutely gorgeous because here it is a lovely oh I don't have my widget it hasn't been too bad I have to say it's currently 39. 39. the bitter cold doesn't usually excuse peace and he just talks yeah the the bitter cold doesn't usually happen until like January February yeah January yeah that's true I was also I was chatting today with someone who had done her like grad training in the Midwest and I was telling her that I would much rather do winter in Wisconsin and Minnesota than Chicago because Chicago is way more gray in the winter yeah that's true and that's what really gets me is the lack of sunlight more so than the cold or the snow yeah yep yeah yeah

5:29 it is true um living in the South you don't you don't get this as much you get it a little bit but not as much as people in the north the Sun is setting the Sun is going to sleep the sun is not performing she's she's clocked out early early 4 12 today 4 12 and it's not the 21st of December yet so we're not even at the shortest day of the year um we need to talk to her manager about moving around a performance Improvement plan absolutely and I hate to be caring about this but like honestly I need to speak to the manager because what are we doing I'm not getting vitamin D I mean I'm getting vitamin too but I'm not getting vitamin D do you know any means I don't I don't you need to explain that

6:15 to me I don't understand what that means so we're we're in a feud with the sun I hate to say it yeah um it'll be better when the sun is bigger and by that I mean when it's yeah and then we'll know how much you know there'll be a comfort in knowing how much time there and there's left do you know what I mean it's a certainty you get it absolutely get it thank you the girls who get it get it literally Christmas oh actually this is our Christmas episode so what are you doing for Christmas are you going back to Minnesota are you saying anything I'm gonna go to the cabin up in Northern into the snow yeah like North Wisconsin border to

7:01 Minnesota it's your Hayward which you probably don't know where that is but some people listening right it's so it's like uh three hours North east of the cities of the Twin Cities so it's a good distance from the whole city so it's like five hours from Madison so it's a little is it it's like a little too long to really do it on Michigan or Superior no no no no no no not on a great in the woods so yeah yeah so it's further east from Superior I actually don't know that you're I don't think you're North enough or Superior and it's further east so it's north of Door County which is the famous Wisconsin County that's like the peninsula into Mid Lake Michigan it's but so it's on the western part of Wisconsin it's East from Minnesota oh oh oh oh yeah yeah yeah interesting

7:48 cool so I think door might be North but it's yeah it's too far east to be it's east of superior but it's not it's enough to be at but it's still west of Michigan which one is that it's still west of Michigan no absolutely girl all the other ones happen on the other side of Michigan you don't need to worry about that Doris Door County yeah are you talking about lakes or counties that's what you're talking about door is like a peninsula on Lake Michigan yes into Lake is it Michigan the door's on yeah that's what I'm talking about she is Adam don't Gaslight me geography on Christmas not her major not her major gaslighting me on Christmas how dare this comes out of the 15th so I don't care how do you think Charles Dickens would feel right now he feels

8:33 great look at his grave he'd feel great he did there were a lot of gas lamps around his time too fast and no one talks about it I feel like I think no one talks about it I think it's a featured part of a Muppet Christmas Carol is gas lamps I think uh Rizzo the rat lights and puts out the gas lamps in the Christmas carol I haven't seen that in a long time it's a movie Musical and we're gonna get to it listeners we should don't you worry we should write it down for next Christmas because I so I Love A Christmas Carol because my family would go see it every year exactly as many City almost every city has their theater company but I don't we don't really have a definitive film version I hate to say it I think we do Muppets is the is the definitive version it is

9:20 and can I tell you even without researching this can I tell you why it is the definitive please girl because Michael Caine plays Scrooge okay we love um he went in and um famously I'm up it's Christmas mascara was directed by uh uh um Jim Henson's son after Jim Henson had passed okay so he had taken over the company and Michael Kane was casted was cast I'm sorry cast as Scrooge and he went in and he said I think his name's Brian Henson fact checked me his dog he went into it said to Brian I believe I am going to play this like we are all members of the royal Shakespeare company I am not going

10:05 to interact with any of these characters though they are Muppets I'm going to interact with everybody as though they are actors and Brian was like yes that's what we want you to do yeah and I think that is the reason when people believe that the Muppets are real that's where the magic happens was it Brian Henson perfect thank you um what a great clue on a trivia bar trivia game and let me tell you I watched it did we watch it last year two years ago we watched it like the first year first pandemic yeah first year pandemic first season for pandemic season one season one pilot pilot season pilot season yeah we're still trying it out um Leslie Knope was still not her normal self yeah right um and it really does hold up and it's very good and

10:51 um the songs actually are very good too okay I haven't seen jingle dangle are probably listening thinking that we're gonna be like we didn't like the movie and that's why we're avoiding talking about it but let me say for me in that regard but like okay but I love that Molly loves jingle Jingles you did watch it with the Right audience I watched the great audience you did I watched with my nephews but also I feel like I don't have a big stable of Christmas movies that I love personally and I would be happy to watch this well ever since you found out that Mimi and St Louis wasn't of an actual family favorite you know ever since I learned the Rita's I've actually never seen really I need more Christmas advice sure sure

11:39 yeah this week it is my turn to explain and I hate to say it this is a very complex complex men's plane I don't quite understand why you feel like you're such a con explanation of it but a lot of them in order to figure out why everything happens if that makes sense well I'll let me you know what you know that's not the challenge of the summary the challenge of the summary system and I would know as can I can we try it a summary challenge which is I haven't looked at what you food and I'm gonna see if I can summarize it quicker Let's do let's read mine and then you take a look at it in the notes while I

12:26 go and then you tell me what I should edit out okay because I really did read through it two times to be like is there anything I can edit and like there are some adjectives that I probably could have been like who cares and we all know that the law is you can only read things two times to edit them that's the list that's true yeah that's in the editorial Journal of science science is a big part of this movie it's just like on this episode I hate to tell you um Can somebody start my minute please okay sure Adam this is your one minute summary of jingle jangle a Christmas Journey and your time starts now jeronicus jangle invents a toy called Don Juan which is a sentient action figure that is also a matador upon learning that he will be mass-produced and believing he is too unique for that

13:12 Don Juan tricks Jangles assistant Gustafson into stealing him in all of jango's other blueprints for inventions this turns jingle's once impressive shop to a pawn brokers not to mention his brilliant mind reduced to Simply fixing other people's broken objects while Gustafson has a thriving business after a span of 30 years during which his wife dies and his inventor daughter gives up and moves away disconnected from her father he hasn't invited his granddaughter named journey to stay with him for Christmas however the timing is not ideal as the bank is going to foreclose his business because he is so behind on his rent and bills journey and jangle initially do not get along but eventually begin to sow seeds of familiarity specifically through a snowball fight meanwhile Gustafson has run out of Django's plans and his own ideas still don't work correctly placing

13:57 him in a predicament as he needs a new toy for the upcoming Christmas holiday he figures out that there is a secret invention that jingle's daughter Jessica invented as a girl still stowed away in jingle's Workshop named buddy but he needs belief in order to work he steals buddy but Journey breaks into gustafson's Workshop in order to get buddy back finally Gustafson is thwarted by the signature of the plans for Buddy being signed blacklight Inc belonging to Veronica's djangle and Don Juan is powered down for good the bonds between Django and the rest of the family are mended and the shop is seemingly to be returned to its former glory as the best toy shop in the world that was a minute and 35 yeah I I know I genuinely like plot Point wise it did feel I just think you're getting bogged down in like specific details yeah if I didn't mean he was a matador

14:44 is that what you're saying yeah that's exactly what I'm saying yeah is visually interesting but not essential to the plot okay so that would save me 3.5 seconds I just think like like you know like ultimately just be like he gives up he's in financial trouble his granddaughter comes she discovers a toy of him I mean if you want to do it that way here tell me give me a minute give me a minute okay that's what I'm trying to say uh your time starts now geronicus jingle is an inventor who has invented all the greatest toys in the world his assistant steals all of his ideas and his most popular toy away from him over the course of 30 years uh Veronica's family has died and or moved on from him um eventually Gustafson tries to steal

15:29 his latest toy invention or his last toy invention back but uh in the end it doesn't work out Progressive sin and geronicus wins I mean really that's sure that's the plot but that's like the plot of any film in which the good guy wins I don't really know if that's specific enough but I mean like if you he's a toy inventor if you add a journey in that you in the like 20 seconds that you still have left then that's it and then Journey's his granddaughter period period and she is and she is famously the square root of impossibility yeah we are gonna have to talk about math yeah so if you don't like that if you don't like math oh it's deep in the math this one yeah um I don't know I mean like listen I

16:14 probably could have done better but I'm not gonna you know I'm not getting paid for this if someone wants to sponsor me I'll work very a lot harder on this yeah so that's enough to investors we're gonna start threatening our listeners yeah we're not gonna do a better job until one of you you're going to be so bad you get it yeah yeah that'll get him I'll have to learn about capitalism in a few few months since I've gotten out of Academia and it's it's rough out here we got threaten people Molly I love that you think that Academia exists outside of capitalism I think that's beautiful I think that's gorgeous I love your delusion um RJ you famously have talked about this on record already you have recorded an

16:59 entire I believe 36 and a half minute episode dedicated to this film on the ampliverse YouTube channel um you can find it who are you talking to in it I don't know so I talked to my friend Ryan uh he and I watched this movie Jingle jangle for our podcast uh wait I had I had a one season podcast called the popsicle where I just like talk about things that I like in pop culture and then you know talk about this what's sweet about it and what's sticky about it and uh one of the episodes was jingle jangle and at the time that I had watched it I genuinely had like a very positive like reaction I was like yeah this is like a very cute like this could be a movie that like very viable it could be like a Christmas like tradition to watch this

17:46 movie um it was very fun I thought that was a modern Christmas classic yeah I thought the the it was very visually appealing I thought the cast was like Stellar um and except for one and we had we had a great time watching it there were obviously like some parts that were like okay you know because it's so kind of like you know a children's movie musical there's still some stuff that I'm like okay this doesn't make sense or you didn't really need this character but um stuff like that but overall like a positive experience great Molly what you watch this movie for the first time I I need to go back to RJ for a second because you said that like that was my first time watching and you're setting up the second time watching was very different not necessarily I think it was just more like I watched the second time I watched it it was just like because I

18:32 knew all the Beats already that it it didn't work tuned yes and uh not that Adam was like pessimistic when he was watching it but he didn't lose a little bit of the Christmas magic while watching it and so I was kind of just like just hey just keep watching I can't believe that you're letting us down as our Christmas guy right now yeah we're relying on you to love how saccharine this movie was and you're not showing up for it and I think that's I think it's I think there is a specific difference and that this movie is not saccharine but it is twee and we will get into that Molly I'd love to know what your thoughts um or your I saw I'm sorry your history with this movie was yeah relationship I've never seen it I think

19:17 I kind of had the impression that it wasn't all that good I don't know why but just like the way that you kind of pick up headlines of things or whatever I thought that maybe it hadn't been well received but it totally was it was yeah yeah I watched it as I mentioned with my nephews who are two and a half and seven it was family movie night this past Friday we turned on the fireplace we did jingle jangle uh and it slapped went over really well my brother said great choice after we finished the movie the Nielsen ratings were high rating for this household were seven out of seven I don't know the numbers but perfect score in this household

20:05 well amazing I also like Molly I had never seen this movie RJ had weirdly watched this fully without me famously in Orlando Adam worked till like 11 pm and she worked so I was like I'm just gonna watch this so I'm not gonna wait for you okay Adam what's your relationship with Django well I had never seen this movie um RJ had watched this without me for his podcast um because I was probably busy or something um I remember you being positive on it I just like didn't watch it I don't know I don't I probably because I was like well I want to watch it with you but you had already seen it so I didn't feel like I wanted to make you watch it again so it's my fault it is I just followed

20:50 famously um as the Nemesis of the past yeah I mean I don't have to be marketing relationship you know into a little bit of like the Netflix of it all where things just like wash past me yeah exactly so like there's so much that if you don't pick it up when it is hot on when the trailer drops or you happen to be on a social media platform when a trailer drops it's it's not in your it's not in your radar it's not if it's not in your algorithm you're never gonna see this movie um you can really like make a platform for themselves by being like the Netflix archivist or something that like creates a resource that lets people like remember the stuff that was good it

21:36 could be interesting maybe missed do you know what I mean like or is it someone just make a Wikipedia list but I think something more engaging than that yeah or like what NPR does every year with their book concierge where it's like you enter recommendations enter like keywords that you may have or like a thing that you like and then Netflix will like I know it has that randomizer thing but if there was a thing that was like these are five things that you could watch right the problem is I think whatever Netflix technically already does that with its algorithm automatically so books don't have an algorithm for them to like yeah recommend [ __ ] to you but but Netflix does so I think that okay so I think the big problem we're taking down Netflix baby yeah I I don't know something that we're tearing for 2023. absolutely here's the thing here's last year for our Christmas episode we also watch the

22:21 Netflix Christmas movie so they are giving what the girls aren't giving Which is Christmas but I think you'll agree with me both of you that the um that it feels though Netflix put into this movie is very different from the amount that they put into Dolly Parton I think we're going for different things though to be fair they are going for different things they're very different tones they're maybe not totally different I don't know that the director of Christmas on the Square was like in their lobbying Netflix's office being like I have this idea for a set piece that I need you to find exactly but it feels like post both of those films I think we've had an equal amount of time from both of those films debuting on Netflix that neither of them have stuck in the

23:08 cultural Consciousness and one makes sense like Christmas on the Square doesn't seem like it was made on a massive budget so it doesn't seem like if Netflix put that much into Marketing in it blah blah blah blah if you look up jingle jingle there is a ton of marketing that Netflix tried to do for this film they had the director like interview with a bunch of different um journalistic Publications like there's a lot of information that you can find about this movie that I could not find out if you remember from jingle jingle there was like nothing on the background yeah I'm sorry um whereas this one did have a little bit more and yet I still feel like there is no cultural Touchstone for this film which like is very strange because I do think for the general public this film should really work it almost feels like it

23:54 should have had a theatrical release well it did oh I think it's a great time to talk about the background oh my God thank you [Laughter] so jingle jingle the title the full title first of all enough with these titles the full title is jingle jangle a Christmas Journey it's it's these titles as if it could just be jingle jingle okay is it just SEO that they're like someone's gonna be searching for Christmas on Netflix next year absolutely there's no way that they haven't tagged jingle jingle as Christmas in general yeah but maybe also for like other like outside of the Netflix platform for Googling it or whatever I don't know I don't know it's

24:41 it seems like it reveals a lack of confidence that that Association will be quite clear to people 100 that is it I believe that completely because jingle jingle there if you said the words jingle jingle to me and I didn't immediately associate it with Christmas so anyway that's my annoyance with jingle jiggle um The Christmas Journey full title I'm that's the last time I'm going to say that full title it is

25:26 directed and written by David David E Talbert so he started writing this in 1998. wow and he originally envisioned this as a Stage production which I find very interesting and I'll talk about it later but he was like a wicked almost that's kind of yeah because steampunk yeah steampunk is here's a theme in both years um or maybe not a theme but like a uh device thank you yeah um but he did not fully complete his screen or his like his whatever of it until um he had a kid because then he was like oh I feel I feel like I more fully understand how children react to external influence and like I think we

26:11 read the same article when I first recorded I remember I remember that quote too now it's produced by his wife Lynn sis and Talbert oh we stand she's produced everything he's ever done a supportive part of woman Molly you know and you know what and you know what Lynn season Talbert sings every morning she goes my husband makes some movies please I was just listening to the nine episode today so let's make fun hot on my mind it's also produced by David D Talbert Kristen Burr John Legend Mike Jackson and David mcelveane John Legend John Legend do you know him uh yeah recurring recurring star it's Stars Force Whitakers draw older jeronicus

26:57 jingle present no not present Madeleine Mills as young Journey hmm Keegan Michael key as just older Gustafson Hugh Bonneville is Mr delaqua uh Anika Noni Rose says older Jessica jangle uh Felicia Rashad is older Journey spoiler alert Lisa Davina Philip as Ms Johnston who is the best character so good so so good and Ricky Martin plays Don Juan Diego a matter no we have to remember Matador toy yeah yeah I do also want to say just quickly that I feel like the like line between geronicus to Jessica to journey is like

27:45 such an acceleration of how naming conventions have changed over experience that they went like 1850 to like 1990 to 2022. it was like that was the there's a speed at which these names change there is a theme in the script of this film that I think is like annoying and that is part of it um cinematography coming off I think it's over thought I think is the problem okay cinematography is by Remy uh a deforestin um I'm sorry for mispronouncing that probably um it is edited by Michael tronic or Joe dalka or Joe galdo and Virginia Cats the music and by that I

28:30 mean the score is by John Daphne production companies are Golden Girl Brill scene entertainment Partners Burr Productions get lifted film company 260 degrees entertainment we got a lot of production companies we had a lot of chefs in the kitchen it is distributed by Netflix its release date is November 13th 2020 so dead in the middle of pandemic uh running time is 122 minutes which I think is fascinating um and we have no budget because famously it's Netflix Netflix doesn't say anything I see a streamer they say we don't know how much it was made for and we don't know what it makes we kind of just like you know it's all we didn't even look at it we're not worried we're not worried we're losing subscribers we don't care we don't care there is the the YouTube channel for Netflix for like

29:17 their trailers and stuff it's called still watching Netflix which I think is so funny because I'm sure it's a reference to like if you watch a lot of episodes why are you still watching are you still watching but now that there's been news about them struggling with subscribers still watching Netflix every time I see it makes me think like some of us are still watching Netflix okay you could still be watching this yeah I'm still watching it okay it's so cool to watch Netflix I'm still watching it's ironic now um I get like why are they losing something is it just because everyone already has a student services I've said this to me before that I'm I use my parents to have like sign in yeah uh if I were starting from scratch today I don't know that have you want to always use your Netflix or your parents Netflix you've never had your I've never had my own yeah

30:02 I have had my own Netflix account since 2011. yeah hey I guess you're way more grown up than me I get it okay Adam is a voting body in the news you know why I got Netflix can I tell you because you're a responsible citizen no I wish um because in 2010 Don't Say glee no ew in 2010 there had been a PBS Broadway documentary narrated by Julie Andrews yeah and you could get the DVDs through Netflix this was back when like that was the basic plan yeah streaming was also like almost like not a part of it no um so I got I got the free month and then and then like had the DVD shipped

30:48 to me so I could watch all of the Broadway Broadway PBS documentary AKA also it's great I don't know if I mean that's probably there's probably some like historical gaps now just because of when it was filmed but it's a really great documentary um and that's when I got Netflix and then I just never got rid of it so we are going on 12 years I think I remember the 2012 2010.10 I was still a freshman yeah yeah because I feel like I had Netflix as Englishmen for the streaming yes 2011 because I think I didn't have a roommate when I got it it was like in the spring I must have used Martin my roommates Netflix gotta remember our TV had Netflix because I remember the first

31:33 thing I ever watched was the Sondheim birthday concert with the lady in the ladies in red yes I feel like I watched Downton Abbey on Netflix potentially I have a memory of being in my freshman dorm room watching that and happy spot on Netflix Molly I have a memory of being in your freshman dorm room watching the pilot of Downton Abbey not to tell people that I let you be in my freshman out of the rumors um and it wasn't good for either of us I can't tell you um no but so yeah I I mean like it's weird being the age in which everything was happening while we were in college yeah a historical event s

32:23 at the Arab Spring I mean it's a while uh Osama bin Laden died it's crazy oh my gosh it's so stupid I I wanted to say something else before this but we've gotten so far off track that I don't know anymore was it Netflix was it Netflix was it Netflix um related no I was gonna say Rita and Steve are devastated that Netflix is apparently going to do away with the DVDs now they're officially going to stop it I haven't seen that wow because up at the cabin we don't have good enough internet to stream so they rely on the DVDs yeah so yet again rural communities being cut off access no no high-speed Broadband do something infrastructure infrastructure Biden it's funny because when we moved to So Adam

33:08 Adam has a huge DVD collection mostly Disney films that we brought over to Orlando and when we were leaving Orlando to Chicago we were downsizing my mom was like I got this so in every still had kangaroo jacks a movie that I've never seen and so when I went to the Philippines and went to my mom's like the retirement home the the home that they've built since they retired I was like oh Adam's entire DVD collection is I was right here yeah so you're saying Rita should hand write a letter to your mom in the Philippines on Disney DVD we'll get them back to you in six weeks you might yeah we'll have the moms connect absolutely maybe it's my most efficient way I can imagine for her having to watch a movie so yeah no better way you know DVDs are so hard to

33:53 come by yeah um it's a 36 shipping fee from the Philippines to Minnesota but I think it's worth it yeah from rural Philippines to rural uh Wisconsin um and it's a six weeks gotta go many boats Miss lots of boats fresh off the boat um the song I noticed when I was reading my thing I didn't say who the songs were written sorry songs are written by John Legend and Philip Lawrence okay but John Legend John Legend we know that makes sense Philip Lawrence has written a bunch of Bruno Mars songs also I'm so sorry did I even read yeah yeah no I didn't I don't remember the name I'm so sorry I

34:39 thought it was in my little screen cap the choreographer is the same choreographer as greatest Showman I just need to state that before we get into this and I think Molly now you're getting pieces of like atoms um yeah yeah this is all really just it's taking the hit for greatest Showman it's a friendly fire something like that I can't think of what the metaphor is but yeah yeah it's Ashley Wallen yes a man yes yes there's a man named Ashley a man's named Ashley which I love that's great um so we did not this did not Premiere in ah technically it premiered in like three theaters but we were in 2020 it was the pandemic there was no it's not even worth talking about the box office yeah

35:26 I wonder I wonder how much the theatrical release plan was impacted by the pandemic versus just being a Netflix movie right like would it have if if anything if nothing happened would it have had I can tell you exactly why they put it in theaters because Netflix really only does this if they want to run it for awards yeah so they wanted to run this for best best song okay um yes her spirit of impossible yes oh goodness okay which is funny because the one that the Oscar the academy ended up saying was on their short list was make it work make it work because but it did not get nominated but it was on the short list yeah it's a much better song okay so instead of Academy Awards because it was not

36:12 nominated for any Academy Awards was not made for any Global uh Golden Globe Awards and it was not nominated for any razzies which are typically the three that I use to pull nomination situations here's what I went with this year because we've never done this before these are the nominations and awards given to Jingle Jingle from the NAACP Awards so uh it was nominated for outstanding Motion Picture outstanding actor in a motion picture for Forest Whitaker outstanding actress in a motion picture for Madeline Mills who plays Journey outstanding supporting actress in a motion picture for both Anika Noni Rose and then Felicia Rashad won which is crazy because I think she's like six and a half minutes of screen time um outstanding breakthrough performance in a motion picture uh Madeline Mills won so she was the Breakthrough performance of the year yeah totally just totally deserved she's wonderful in this film

36:57 uh outstanding ensemble cast and Motion Picture nomination outstanding soundtrack compilation album nomination outstanding writing and emotion picture and I'm sending Direction into Motion Picture both for David D Talbert was nominated they did not win so the only two that were run okay okay great I don't know what other films it was up against so it's hard to say 2020 was a wild Bonkers year in terms of Cinema because this was also the year where like the Oscars ran from like January to I think Feb like March of the next year like it was it was the Oscars were on like April yes so it's just a it's a very funky time in cinematic history this is all the information I have about the background of this film I have nothing else I have nothing else to talk about

37:42 um I mean I can tell you that it was filmed in England so that's interesting I guess there's a town where they use the like historic storefronts um so you can go there if you really like this movie and you can be like I'm gonna also have a snowball fight in the middle of this town and feel like it's a pretty cute town I would I wouldn't like go to England for that but in fact somebody were like if I was visiting the UK and someone was like okay this is like 30 minutes away by train do you want to go check it out I would for sure do it isn't everything there at 30 minutes by train I believe so I think that that's part of the laws of the country is that like the size of Rhode Island like it's not even a real country yeah this is my this is my conspiracy theory is that England's not real this is my Tristan conspiracy theory um on the Harry Potter podcast that I do is that it's not a real place

38:27 there's a lot of people who've been extremely oppressed by that country who probably would expect to differ on that I don't know what to tell you I mean are you talking about physical land mass are you talking are you saying gaslighting doesn't exist since it's really inconsiderate of those who've been gas lit to say that yeah Molly Molly on this podcast right now in this minute so anyway that's the point is that's all I have I don't really have any more information um if you find any on your own congrats send us an email it looks like we're almost an hour in and haven't started discussing ourselves in the film yet so we're right on time I think we can we're fair to wrap it at this point [Music]

39:15 so let's talk about jingle jingle colon a Christmas Journey you said it was gonna be the last time last time and you lie but here and you know what men lie men lie I I can't speak your piece I did not dislike this movie I have to be very clear I liked this more than I liked um Jamie everybody's talking about Jamie okay um I think this is so visually rich every I'd say it's biggest strength every yes every frame of this movie is so Sumptuous and so vibrant beautiful and vibrant and like exactly what you want for a children's Christmas film

40:01 yeah perfect no notes there I have problems with the the thing I I I just okay so I have to I have to step back for a minute I just sorry I have to go I have to sleep away I'm getting so emotional I just recently saw Elf the musical .ly that's right that's right um another famous buddy another famous buddy Buddy the elf buddy of the robot buddy the robot who's the more famous buddy that's the real question um and I think that my problem with both of them is

40:46 that they weirdly are ripping off uh uh Mary Poppins all of this is coming from no no this is not the origination this is what I discovered today I think I have specific qualms with this movie that I will talk about later but Molly we've been duped this is he's been an hour for two years with the understanding that you were making these arguments in good faith and now this is all of this has been about here's the thing listen Linda listen so um as an adult okay so I watched

41:32 obviously we talked about it earlier but or by earlier I mean the episode where we talked about Ray puppets but I watched my problems many years ago earlier and as an it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that the actual story is about a father many his relationship with his children um that's the father mending his rip-offs of Mary Poppins that's your theory well when the director movie that invented that when the director and writer directly references in an interview Mary Poppins then yeah I'm going to say that because it's a class film that one would draw upon for something relationship with a father go back why the odds were totally cool before Mary Poppins came out and it invented toxic

42:18 relationships with Father Figure what does Mary Poppins the original film have to do with a classic Christmas Story Molly matinee it is a wholesome family I'm not saying Mary Poppins it's a Christmas movie it seemed like that's what you were saying oh my god well you were correct well I think you need the word yourself this is better I think you need to stop making assumptions about other people are trying to say in their communication and you should ask them questions straight up to follow up the way that you just did in fact in order to learn more information about my intention in the statement that I made so more on that anyway I think my my annoyance and I think it's just like I I think I listen as a person who has a

43:04 fraught relationship with his father uh I can speak to the fact that it is it is a it is a overflowing well for for playwrights to draw from I think that's great um I just wish it did it a little more sophisticated or yeah I think just sophisticated I think it's just like a little too there's something about children's musicals that I think people go oh it's just a children's Musical and RJ said the same thing to me yesterday he was like it's just a kids movie and I was like but that doesn't mean you don't have to like think about it and I think there is a and I will I I will say about this movie I think there's a there's a ton of thought put into this film I think there's so much thought put into like the production standpoint and the

43:51 costuming and the like hair styling of this film and I think just in general like the representation of this film is so important but I think there's like a little bit of like the the story of the film is like and and so we'll just make it all this thing but then we'll just keep like the classic Christmas or family insert here story and I think it's a little bit underserved because it's not as baked I think there are parts of this film that are really good and I think there are some performances that are absolutely stellar and I think there's one performance in particular that absolutely sucks but I think that it's Edison and I'll say it right now it's Edison he sucks he's the worst character in this I can even include him in your summary he's

44:38 the worst character in fiction period period [ __ ] um but I think just in general I wish I I wish they had like maybe it's just that there's too many characters or they're trying to do too many things like I do think it has a little bit of like the modern movie problem where they're like yeah where they're like and then there's six plots and you're like we don't need Don Juan Don Juan doesn't need a character do you know what I mean okay with you on your argument of like children's media should be held to a high standard as well and we should we should consider it if anyone's on my side with that it's Molly a hundred percent doctorate yeah tya scholar for sure I think to make children into the cultural Experts of the moment since I am the one

45:24 who watched it with children I will tell you that my my seven-year-old nephew because the two-year-old nephew had to go to bed before the movie was over which is kind of how it always works on Friday movie Nights she's happy about that he was fine with it uh he cried during Forest Whitaker's song about being sad in his workshop and thinking about the fact that his daughter is gone and when they got reunited he was cuddling with it he went to cuddle with his mom when he was crying about the song about him being sad and when they reunited and said I love you he turned to his mom and said I love you Mommy and she said I love you too now watch us Watchers here's my thing okay continue continue no I just it was like I've never I don't know that I've ever seen a movie like so directly impacted like I'm feeling exactly what

46:11 the characters are feeling it's prompting me to think about how much I love my parents like oh my gosh it was so amazing and again I think this is a great movie I don't I Dr I genuinely don't think this is a bad movie but if we are coming into this with like a a specific like we're evaluating the film on what the film is then I just think like there are some aspects of this film that don't hold water for me for me in my viewing of this film and I think is it because it's too simplistic how the relationship is repaired I think it's that I think it's that I don't there is not enough time given to these relationships in in real space other

46:58 than like a person discussing these relationships like the narration of the relationships so then I don't feel like the the I don't think like the the front at the the beginning to the end is warranted like I don't think there is like I can kind of see that because there is because in essence it's a the movie is telling the story of it so like there's a storytelling aspect of it there's like yeah there's like little maquettes that like you know like do the stop motion to like fill in the gaps of the story but I think there is that section between the second and the third Act of the movie that is like the emotional like turn of it and like ironic because elf does the exact same thing that I think kind of

47:45 skip some of those things and kind of expect that like yeah this makes sense to happen right away blah blah because I I think you need to give me an example of where you were frustrated of them not spending enough real time on the relationships I think for me it was mostly just the it was Jessica and andronicus because I I do think that like I almost wish that they didn't have to have like I almost wish that like it they showed that like it's gonna be it's gonna be mended I almost wish that we didn't see that the relationship got mended I almost wanted to be like because of Journey they were set on the right we have the promise that they will yeah because but I think like by showing it right away it was like oh then it's especially like I think yeah I think the geronicas journey thing works yeah do

48:30 you agree with that that like that that gets enough time the the how she sort of slowly reintroduces Wonder into his life does that work for you Adam and it's mostly the Jessica jeronicas thing that doesn't work I would say I'm gonna speak for Adam I think it does because you thought the movie was over after this I'm so glad that that works for you Adam I I after they were like they when they say rescue buddy the robot yeah famous robot that we all know and love from Christmas media buddy the robot um I thought the movie was over and then I clicked the screen and it said 37 more minutes and I was like oh that was the end of act two um so I guess I believed that I think that snowball scene does a lot of work it's a very heavy lifter

49:16 um it's a musical it's a musical movie songs yeah from a dance number for a dance number great um that's not my complaint I just am pointing that out that that's where the the meat of that relationship bonding happens it's in that scene my confusion I think and maybe this is just like me and I wasn't paying like strong enough attention why is a man who clearly doesn't want his granddaughter to be there why did he invite her at all so I think I do I agree this wasn't super clear I think that what happened was he invited Jessica and Jessica Journey it was Jessica's like decision to be like yeah I'm not ready almost so I'm gonna see how it goes for you because now you want that

50:02 yeah it's it's a little bit of a weird choice I don't know I mean like if I felt like my parent was like really withholding and I don't know my child on that you know I want my child to also experience but maybe she was confident she was hopeful that like because she was like I want to find other people like me because I'm you know most kids play oh yeah so maybe she also knew that like they had this similar way of viewing the world and so it would connect over that I I do think maybe one that could be a little bit more explained I also do think that it's a bit confusing so Jessica has this song with Veronica where they're talking

50:47 about how like they're gonna fix it they're gonna mend it that's her song that she sings as she's on her way to his pawn shop and because Veronica and Jessica live like out in the country like they're it's like a train wagon like it's a big journey to get to Veronica's like they live in a different city or something and it was confusing because she has this whole song with this intention of like what I am doing is I'm going to fix my relationship with my father like that's why I'm why I'm making this trip but then she arrives and she's like well I came to take journey home early and that I understand coming in with that energy of like I know that your whole deal is you're like annoyed by your family you you like can't handle it emotionally so

51:33 like I understand being concerned of like have has she overstayed her welcome but it's weird to like have this song that's like what I'm doing is I'm going trying to repair it and then show up and be like I'm not here like do you know what I mean like so that I do think was a little bit it like it kind of weren't clear on the order of events a little bit Yeah it felt like they were really struggling to find a place for the song it felt like there was also pressure to be like we have any ganoni Rose like we have to have a song for her obviously it has to be like a you know like quote unquote the 11 o'clock like the a big number yeah but I think uh it almost did a disservice of not showing her enough I really feel like if they just yeah to build it I think if she had come

52:18 there was this thing about Bernie well no so I I think it's fine to have Journey come first I like that that it starts to crack him opens to be able to then yeah to to say the kind of shameful thing of like I mess up as your dad like I think that makes sense to me for his journey that he needs to huh that he needs to like first be reminded of what it was to have a child when she was young and then like that sets it up for Jessica to come in I just I wish Jessica had come with the like I'll take her home early if you need me to he says no stay they kind of slowly build something and then we could have something happen to make it work song yeah and then like they get to and now we're gonna like spend all night repairing this robot together yeah kind of thing yeah I think it's she's just

53:06 miss she's just that character is not used yeah I think the big thing if we're talking about in terms of like comparing this to Mary Poppins and I'm so sorry to do this but I already brought it up so we're happy but that's the only thing we can compare it to Adam has made that the law um I think the thing that especially as like an adult watching it again what really works about Mary Poppins is that the children and the father have a there's a divide and it's not just like the children ingratiate themselves to the father it is that there is a crisis and then Mary has to be like you are [ __ ] up you

53:51 marry and Bert together kind of are like you have done wrong you need to step up and I think that I wish there was a third party and I almost wish it was Jessica who was like I wish she stepped in and was like you have to be the father to whatever that whatever blah blah blah however you want to word it you have to do this thing because I didn't get it but Journey needs to get it from you yeah almost like uh you already messed it up once because he is so geronicus in the beginning of this film not not in not in the prologue not in the prologue yeah once the film really starts he's so cold and like not in like a fun kind of homogeny yeah not like a scrooge way where you're like oh you're gonna warm

54:37 up like he's mean and I was like very turned off by it and maybe that's like part of the reason why I didn't respond to this movie as well um but like uh that really bothered me and I I just don't think that the way they set him up I didn't believe that he on his own would be like I was wrong and it that's just where I'm at with it I think yeah I think I found his level of meanness to maybe be like a few clicks below what you found it to be which is a repeat of our Annie conversation that like yes it is very similar I maybe don't read it as quite as hostile as you read it so that's just like a personal reaction to it kind of a thing sure it's hard to control for as an artist I think yeah um should we play is this I think we got

55:24 to play that song right right into the middle of the right in the middle we're going by themes today ladies and germs uh here's make it [Music] works again [Music] he thinks that we can make we can make it work again I've got a heart that needs demand and I don't know how this story ends oh can we make can we make it work again I know it won't be easy [Music] I hope this time you'll see me working on this formula for years I wonder if

56:12 it's time it could be real [Music] Rose [Music] Dream Girls oh it's just the best part of dream girl she's the best one in dangerous she is like the hitters so good yeah I want her she's the best part right girls but I think they're all so good that it's like it's like choosing a favorite child Destiny I chose one I chose great I know great and Lorella it's again not to bring up Dream Girls but like Dream Girls gives a full like rounded character story to each of

56:59 its I think even though Laurel's not the important part of the story but that movie gives her like a full storyline of her own that she is having she's in a separate movie She's the star of a summer movie that we are never going to see but like I believe it I think that what is floating jingle jangle back a little bit in this like development of the emotional core of the character saying I think part of it is probably it's children's media and the expectations we have for children's media but I think maybe even more than that is that it's a Christmas movie and I think the expectation that Christmas movies have to end with everything is solved everything is harmonious as a family unit like things have to get to this totally unproblematic emotional place is like the rule that we've made for Christmas movies I think that might be the bigger pressure yeah it is

57:45 causing that and I think it's it's creating that pressure because every in all the other accounts it's doing something new it's doing something fresh it's kind of like innovating a Christmas movie Musical that it's like oh I almost wish like the yeah like just these little things to clean up in the story also can kind of be like but I think that's probably asking for a level of risk in this that's like that's like bringing in the African-American experience to Victorian England it needs to be a risk that Netflix is taking to see if they can make a holiday movie that will make them enough money to make it worth it and also I need you to like get to an emotional core of Christmas that we've never seen before is like a lot to ask about yeah for sure absolutely but also

58:31 we're not here to be like well it's good because it was a movie so that's true yeah I just I just think that like I really admire all of what the people who made it did and like I I if somehow they were listening to this I wouldn't want them to be like gosh they're asking a lot of us and making this movie review a more current movie I feel more aware of like the artist could somehow know what we've said about it you know what I mean sure yeah then they listen they do we're the most listened to podcasts we're above Joe Rogan it's true I mean culture maker I we did a we did a book club episode on ampliverse and the the author of the book watch star book club the Spider-Man musical when we read that his novel oh and he was like you guys

59:16 were so much fun blah blah blah like you really captured like the craziness of what happened we're like so you never know Adam Mr David might be watching but I like listening again I feel like I have to keep saying this I really I did like this movie yeah I just this movie had and this is and we can even talk about like um minority media and how it feels like it has to achieve every single Iota on the checklist and there's no way it can this movie feels like they were making a movie and they're like we are reaching for the sun and the moon and stars and they got the Stars absolutely and that's great yeah and it's not like any white movie you'd be like great sure we watch White Christmas every year like that's not a great film like this is that movie there's a there's a well it's

1:00:03 on a it's a reference there's like a I wish we could do with some numbers again you know what I miss every Christmas minstrels minstrels and I watch it every year and I'm I am the problem I have the problem I'm glad that you finally that is why RJ and I thought that we should watch this one in particular was to get you to that place you know um three Christmas movies I think that this could be so good on stage like yeah the book this is this is Christmas magic and honestly honestly give us give us Christmas music goes on because elf is not good on stage I have to tell you I saw it I thought it was a good

1:00:50 production that's so funny Adam has brought so much trauma oh my God oh my God Mary Poppins and then she's like we're hitting some nerves we're just like because because when things get so touch Stony that people feel like they have to use them as like jumping off points for their media I when I just want you to be like I just want you to write your own thing I just want you to blank slate and do whatever you want and feel like you don't have to be like I have to make out I have to make Will Ferrell funny on stage you don't you don't that's the joy of it well I can't speak for Elf but I think like this is really this really is a symposium on my thoughts on alpha music yeah so that's interesting critique that

1:01:36 you're saying based on something else are you also saying that it feels like jingle jingle feels like it has to be referencing other things no no I feel like I didn't feel that way about yeah I feel like they made jingle jingle and they were like I love all of these things and I want to make this version of these things I I think and I also read an interview in which he said that so that could be influencing my I know that he said because he said like he wanted his son to watch bang bang which is like number one on our list of movies we keep cutting at the last minute we're interesting to watch but like I I I felt like I saw oh I want to make a everyone in the family can watch a movie I want to make the holiday movie that has black actors at its core like I saw that but I did I didn't feel like there

1:02:22 was like a specific thing it was living in the shadow of personally it felt like a new thing to me but I think it also is like because because the Christmas like values and ideals of what we see in a Christmas movie or whatever is so set in stone that I think that like it it's someone can watch this movie and be like okay I immediately think of like you know values and Christmas and like we set a standard as a culture we have to let go of Victorian England I hate I hate to say it you're making you're making great Segway I am I know Historical Notes I just Dickens lived and Dickens died and his work doesn't need to die but we don't need to be like this Christmas media we gotta go because

1:03:07 somehow it always comes back to that and I'm like bruh we are not in England when when this movie starts I will let you get to your Vic afro victorianism part in a minute when this movie starts and everyone that speaks has an American accent and then we jump through time and then there are suddenly British people I was so thrown off there's many things the setting is confusing that's fantasy but it's fine other people have a British accent and he says the the car drives on the British side of the road I I intentionally clocked it he said something about like go to the she sits on the right side of the car yeah when she drives the car yeah so it's sad I think in England but so for some reason this one Central Family

1:03:53 maintains an American accent through multiple Generations that is I did not like I was confused by that for sure yes um but let's talk about why they may have felt compelled to put a Victorian Twist on it so I read several sources for today's uh pod but I'm gonna start with Hillary Naomi rats um on her article visualizing the Victorian Christmas involving iconography and symbolism in the wake of 19th century commercialism which is part of the Brock University undergraduate Journal of History so hats off to you Hillary as a an undergraduate scholar I really enjoyed your piece so sorry fully laughs he's so uninterested or whatever uh

1:04:40 most of the things that we think of as like secular Christmas iconography right so like Christmas trees and Holly and stuff like that that's like not about the baby Jesus the Bible all of that stuff it comes mostly from non-english cultures I feel like this is like one of those like everybody kind of knows it that's like England stole it from pagans and other cultures and whatever and like none of the Christmas stuff that we have is like from England but she argues that the commercialism of Victorian England started to print those things in a mass way where the image of Christmas has now been solidified for us around this Victorian English print media of either like they were both were like cards that people would exchange from like on a personal way in Victorian England as well as print advertisement and it's part of the commercialization of Christmas and the shift towards what

1:05:27 Christmas is about is consumption giving gifts all of that stuff so it's sort of like the first visuals we had of like what Christmas looks like come from Victorian print ads essentially and that's why it's become so Associated I think also obviously because of Dickens and Christmas Carol and I was just talking about how that's like I love that story I think it's awesome I love seeing a production of it every single Christmas but I think that's really interesting so take that the visuals of Victorian Christmas very strong in culture and yes I discovered it listeners uh just before the Pod uh Adam dropped the term afro-victorianism or afro-victorian it's just afro-victorian yes afro-victorian which apparently you encountered an article somewhere and I was like trying to find some good like

1:06:14 here's why we made these aesthetic choices and I was struggling with it um but I discovered from Adam's use of the term that there is a Wiki paid page on fandom Aesthetics about afro-victorian as a term that was so it first came into cultural Consciousness because it was used by Michael Wilkinson who designed the costumes for this movie so this movie like kind of introduced the idea in a way but according to this Wikipedia page well he brought that term up there are several artists that you can um reference that sort of use that aesthetic maybe before we were using this term for it so I didn't have time to do the whole thing um but the works of artist yinka Shona bear Shona bar and the photos of photographer tamry could padika and the

1:07:01 style of the Herrera women of Namibia so this is like a thing that we've seen apparently in some other places I wish I had time to read this whole thing but I was interested I was like okay so we have aphro-victorian idea and uh David E Talbert says that his wife Lynn the

…