Cats (2019) dir. Tom Hooper | Showgays: A Movie Musical Podcast

0:04 as cast members of the motion picture cats nobody more than us understands the importance of good visual effects basically we had to use our imaginations in a lot of ways you know to be able to deliver um which is not easy to do which made it the most unique experience for me and ever yeah because guess what else I was mad about when Avatar came out yeah the highest grossing movie of all time they're like oh what is this blue people that is it's different it's unusual yeah they did the same thing with the cats trailer wait

0:50 till you see the movie guys yeah um and the reviews oh shocking I saw one that said this is the worst thing to happen to cats since dogs right [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you foreign [Music] not a sound from the pavement

1:37 has the Moon last a memory can we talk about how Leona Lewis was the star of the Broadway Revival and she was like 26 yeah she's got pipes I I think he absolutely does have pipes famous for singing what's her famous song good amazing Nicole Scherzinger did did it on the West End too yes Nicole Scherzinger was the West End Revival I just feel like with pop stars I don't know ever if they're really good singers because I only hear them in produced music and so I often just don't know what it is underneath also hi I'm a

2:24 co-host now we'll get to that in a second oh hello what's crazy though about we'll get into all of this but like what is crazy about memory is a song is that it's not like a traditional uh it can it can easily be done as like a pop song it's like very transferable which is I think why it has had such lasting power in the global Consciousness hello and welcome back to Showcase a movie musical podcast this is the best Revival of a podcast we did win we did win thank you it was incredible thank you so much for voting no one none of you we'd like to thank our two big fans one is Adam's mother Nan thank you so much Nan thank you Mom

3:09 oh really thank you Rita yeah our mothers I was gonna say our second biggest fan is Molly who ended up being a co-host because we were like well if you like it so much why don't you help us out and she said okay yeah Nan is going to come from my spot is what you're saying she's gonna she's gonna replace me soon he did famously have the longest episode ever of the original run you know our original original podcast um and you know we got into it about into the woods that's not what this is about Google this is a new Revival you know we're telling a different story telling a different story we would officially like to welcome as permanent co-host of this podcast

3:55 not show gay but show gal show gal Molly yeah that's true I just went with a one a one-word um name on my birth certificate and I thought that you paused because you were trying to think of one nice thing to say about me to introduce me of anything nothing nothing came to mind nothing sprung to fruition um thank you so much for joining us Molly we are so excited to travel down this uh dark and stormy path together yeah um to the heavy side layer to the heavy side layer um I'm extremely excited to be on the show now it's my favorite podcast and now I'm a part of it

4:41 that's called manifest today yeah and that's the secret ladies regret um my God we this is also the most like official this podcast has ever been we have like full notes we have a Google Drive open we have a Google doc open at the moment yes um it's really something else citations are available as as is this what format is this plural student at the University of Wisconsin-Madison is that correct correct this is MLA this is not MLA this is MLA but I do use a citation manager so if you need me to switch from if you prefer APA in your show notes you know it's pretty easy it's so funny that you think I would have a preference

5:26 um that's funny my favorite part was Adam realizing that you added citation so so then quickly at the end and I just matched whatever was happening because I did not know there was a site because back when I was in school Molly I don't know if you were aware that we were all in school together I forgot um when I was in school I think there were like a couple it's like EasyBib was one yeah but I don't think I knew about them until like my last semester of senior year oh girl so so my my ass was on The Struggle Bus every paper I wrote in college this a citation manager is like EasyBib on steroids and I could tell you all about it but I'm sure our listening yes

6:14 today for the explanations of uh what are the what are those called when it's like a Scholastic document um it's not like uh it's not like a periodical like yeah periodical discussion yeah I used to work at the library my school library in high school my job was to come in I took the newspapers put it in those little like bamboo things so that you know you could like hang the newspapers on a rack or whatever um and then no idea what you're talking about it's like a hold down like it's like a stick where you slide the pages of the newspaper it's like the newspaper stays like it doesn't get all crumpled or whatever it's like on a racket

7:00 I've ever seen a newspaper at a library maybe that's the problem maybe that's the problem and then I did the the magazines too so I was very well versed and wired anyone wired wire Wired Magazine yeah I guess I know what that is yeah it's wild to me how much time human beings used to spend managing physical pieces of paper yeah what truly insane and it was literally only until like 10 15 years ago that they were like I guess we're moving everything to computer right because even when I was little I remember learning the Dewey Decimal System like I remember our Elementary School library you would have to like go and get like the nobody was doing that I was in second grade but speaking of computers let's talk about CGI cat hair yeah let's

7:48 get into it because this is going to be a really long episode I feel like um I've been wanting for this and the people have been clamoring I posted a little thing on the ampleverse Instagram and twos of people were like and we're here to bring it to them who who who would who is up for a challenge this week we are gonna try something that uh a podcast I really like called this at Oscar bus does um where they try to summarize the plot of a film in one minute or less um and do it as succinctly as possible while not leaving anything out who is up to Snuff the task I want to say it's Molly because

8:34 um this is her first time watching the first watch yes um we fortunately have watched it twice once we were wasted and this most recent time we were sober unfortunately I do have to say time watching but I did engage with a lot of media about it when it came out so I didn't quite feel like my first time watching but I I think I have a good way of describing cats so I I want to try yeah absolutely I'm I am pulling up uh a 60 second timer okay uh and you can start right now cats is the story of Victoria who is abandoned and then joins a cult called the jellicle cats which has an elaborate

9:22 ritual that everyone must learn in order to make a jellicle choice in which the chosen one goes to heaven but is maybe also reborn by the cult leader old Deuteronomy eventually they pick grizzabella who has been unfairly Outcast apparently for having an affair with macavity despite the fact that mccavity appears to still be in the jellicle cats only chrisabella is punished for this sin and at the end old Deuteronomy um hopefully realizes the error of her ways in judging women and allows Isabella to ascend to the have a side layer I would say that was pretty good you have 14 seconds left is there anything else you'd like to add um also a naked cat named mccavity sides to kidnap all

10:09 cats that are can say that he's a naked cat because something about the coloring of his fur makes him appear to be naked while all the other cats don't yeah there boy will we get into that that was pretty good it was really good I think my big takeaway is is saying that it is a story about a cat named Victoria that's truly wild that is truly crazy because I like you also felt that way but then I was like but then then what about Victoria and then I didn't mention her at all for the rest of the summary which really tells us a lot about how she functions as a newly inserted protagonist as I understand it from the stage version

10:55 do you have you ever seen you've never seen the movie outside of this viewing have you do you have any understanding of the show outside of this yes besides like existing in pop culture right well so I like road is like my relationship in the notes like it's like ubiquitous in the culture but also I have known cats as the musical that musical theater people don't like for like my entire existence which is wild because musical theater people will defend anything like really anything so ride or die for literally everything in this genre except that we've decided that cats embarrasses us for some reason I mean not some reason I understand but um there's two two references that I think of immediately with cats one is unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt in which

11:41 um Titus just reveals that cats is just a series of actors who just go up on stage and start performing and like there's no script they've just like been washed up people that have just continued to join the cast and then I I okay so do either of you remember this and if not please someone listening right in I have a memory and I want to say memory I want to say it's Bob's Burgers but I I did like an hour of Googling trying to find this so it might have been a fever dream but my memory is that there is a on this television show there is a mother-son talent show and everyone competing is doing memory from cats everyone like the the joke is that I

12:28 think that our like protagonist mother-son are thinking about doing it but then they realize that everyone else is doing it and then they switch songs and you keep like throughout the episode hearing the emcee introducing like here's so and so and so and so doing memory and like that's always the thing that is announced interesting I have never seen a full episode of Bob's Burgers in my whole life which is a shame because I saw the first season Thanksgiving song Thank you for thank you for loving me classic yeah thank you for being there I'm trying to yeah I did a little a quick Google and nothing came up so I wonder did you compete in a mother daughter this is actually just your life I competed in a mother-son talent show

13:16 um and it was your son with my son um and you know it was quite an experience uh I guess that's must have happened because I couldn't I even found a Wiki that was like all of the references of to cats in the capture and couldn't find it and I don't know why I have this memory this is gonna be our subset this is gonna be for the patreon where we try and uh fully serial investigative journalism yeah I mean there is a section of the cat's original show Wiki that has like what the reference or not what the references in pop culture are but there's like that section that's like here's the places it's been referenced yeah there are even entries for Bob's Burgers

14:02 but it's not the thing that I remember I don't know Molly I don't know what yeah what animated show you were thinking yeah had you ever heard of any song in cats I yeah so here's my actual legitimate thing when I was in high school for a couple Summers I went to a musical theater camp at like a local University and one year we learned um part of the dance to mccavity we had a counselor who was like had been on the national tour or something so he taught us some of like the Broadway choreography so that was pretty cool yeah yeah what about you guys what's your interviews mine's probably really short I mine's also the same thing with pop culture where I just knew it from just knowing that musical theater despises

14:47 cats but like fully not on fully not knowing why my understanding was just like okay because it's a bunch of cats it's like a loose plot it's a lit you know each cat introduces themselves with a song and then that's pretty much it um my main pop culture reference is from The Nanny because in the nanny Maxwell Sheffield the the you know the dad uh is a Broadway producer and the running joke was that he he passed on cast like he was like it's a bunch of cats singing it's dumb or whatever so he's always been like his main rival is Andrew Lloyd Webber in the show well it's probably Cameron McIntosh I was gonna say uh is

15:32 the producer yeah but yeah it was always just like that was just the running bit that he never took cats and that's why he's like uh he is a successful Broadway producer but like not obviously the most successful one and so I just always knew that like okay cats is like a bad Musical but I'm trying to think like when it comes to songs I think memory is the only one that I like now before I hadn't I hadn't even heard of like like early on like the word jellicle and now unfortunately I have to know the word I did also I was first introduced to the song memory by Miranda Cosgrove singing it in School of Rock as her audition to be in the band

16:17 um [Music] I forgot about that yeah Miranda Cosgrove go everybody go download Paramount plus and watch uh iCarly hi Carly she's back iCarly best survival of iCarly goes to iCarly um I have seen this show on stage albeit a high school version it has so the rights are out so people can just do cats yeah people can just do cats people choose I think not to do cat Okay um because isn't what Andrew Lloyd rubber show isn't that doesn't have rights it's Phantom still does not still is not able because it's still in its

17:02 original run which is truly insane and there's like uh there's apparently a theater in Las Vegas that was built just to do Phantom like it was custom made for fantastic minute it's a 90 minute Phantom whoa it's an approached Phantom because they know those Las Vegas you listen those tourists they got to get in they got to get out because they gotta get to drinking I would love to go to a 90-minute Vegas version of phantom honestly I have seen Phantom the on Broadway I have sat in the theater I watched it happen before my eyes and it is I mean listen you gotta love a spectacle is the original cats a two-act show it is a two-act show and each Act is titled I what's the act on finale

17:48 it's the it's the first memory oh the ball the memory and the street the memory in the street what is in this film the memory in the street but I feel like the thing that we're missing in our conversation about how it's bad a musical theater people hate it is that it is also wildly successful and I think yeah so what is it what is it we have to get into original cats before we can discuss this right because there is so much lore about this show and I oh GC I didn't original cats OBC original Broadway cats stands for um not not just a misspelling it's actually um okay [Music]

18:45 this show when it happened um it was originally Android Weber was like I want to do I I wanted to see if I can make this is like the late 70s where like everybody was on drugs he was like I want to do a show or like make music to predetermine lyrics and see if I can do that if I'm like good at that wait this was a prompt like this is his thing but also it was also like a concept album but also because he and Tim Rice had had a falling out who was his lyric composer yes I asked Adam like because I wasn't sure if if he wrote I I wasn't sure that he wrote the lyrics but I guess he doesn't Andrew Lloyd Webber does not write lyrics he does not write lyrics

19:31 very well known but apparently he and Tim Rice had a falling out that they have never addressed like they've never disclosed what it was about I know it's not now you need to know um so he he made the music he ba he took a a book of poems that he liked T.S Williams uh T.S eliot's uh book of impossible cats or old old possums book of practical cat wait I have it written down no that's I think of practical cats yeah yeah you know just old possum just sounds so coded to me I just I'm not yo possum yeah I just I don't trust that it's a little too Song of the South for me I'm not really it's yeah it's weird I

20:18 don't listen this is the 30s in the UK so I don't know anything about that other than the great well I guess the Great War had happened the Second Great War had not happened yeah um which Great War was that and uh so he made music to these um was not gonna do anything with it it was just like an exercise in futility basically and then he uh did like this like he presented it at a thing where he just like played the music and uh uh TS eliot's Widow was in the audience and she was like I happen to have these unpublished poems also about cats and this is where he found grizzabella the glamor cat which is an unpublished poem

21:05 that is not in the original book and this becomes the linchpin of the cat story because this is where they realize there is a dramatic through line that you could create and by lynchpin Adam means singular pin only dramatic moment oh my God God so they so then they it's this whole rigmarole of like they create they create this show there had never been before this there had never been a UK dance show like a London dance show because like London dancers were inferior this is in quotes London dances were inferior Broadway dancers they brought in this like huge famous um

21:51 choreographer they brought in like a director who was known for like doing like Prestige work um they created this like elaborate set and to hear the to hear what this set sounded like they basically were in they had made like a three-quarter thrust I believe but the the stage rotated but not in the way that like Hamilton rotated like it was like on a moving plot it was like a whole thing they like redesigned an entire theater for the experience they made the the walkways wider so that they could have the cats come in and out they the cats have these green eyes when they come in and it's all in the dark so all you see are these like cat eyes and they like start the show and they come to the audience it's the whole thing

22:37 this is all I'm this is all I say to get to the fact that this is what people who talk about musical theater called the first mega musical I had never heard of this word in my life I did not know this existed as a word um so this is the first musical they this leads us later on to jukebox musicals which we all have opinions about um this is like the first time that they were like The Branding is the cat eyes and like literally if one thinks of cats the show you can think of the poster with the eyes and the font in the font and that's it there was like there was no type there was no like person above the Marquee there was no like this director presents it was just the cat eyes they redid this later yeah yes they

23:22 redid this later with late Miz where they they have the wayfish coset on everything she is the uh they do this over and over in mega musicals to come so well can I add to the mega musical Thing yes yes so Cameron McIntosh who we talked about earlier is like the guy who invented Mega musicals basically is like what he's known for so he produced the English version of Les Mis he did cats he did Miss Saigon and um everyone's favorite the pirate Queen yeah the pirate Queen um oh and Phantom did I just say Phantom you did not but yes yeah so he like he like is the producer of these musicals where it's like the spectacle is the show basically like you are you can't understand it without that

24:08 yeah that's yes a hundred percent it's truly just throw money at something until it's so big that the audience can do nothing but be wowed at it because it's in your face and it's so lavish um so good for them um we'd love to see it um critics were like mixed to favorable about this which was like kind of interesting um no one really I think though I I want to say I think the thing of it not really having a plot or being like a very very weak plot I think it works on stage because you give more allowances because you're already like well these aren't it's like a presenting media already it's like a it's like a it's like a song it's a pageant it's a beauty

24:55 pageant it's a beauty it's this cat there's that it's a ziggle dollies I have another interesting historical fact though about the plot as well which is that one of the conditions that T.S eliot's Widow put on them adapting it into musical was that they couldn't add anything that wasn't in the poetry so Andrew LED Weber's hands were like kind of tied that he had to only use T.S eliot's work which was a collection of poems and apparently T.S Eliot won the Tony for best book of a musical in 1983. yeah good so never give up on your dreams girls die and leave unpublished words leave written work to yourself

25:41 um so I think that's interesting that like it wasn't necessarily a conscious creative decision that they weren't going to have a plot I think this was the most plot they could possibly come up with with what they had but it wasn't even like a like it's like the plot was like it's never gonna be there I don't know what plot you could add to this though yeah like without again without like creating an entire narrative that's separate from the works of T.S Elia I literally I mean like what what is that what is there this is again just cats coming forward and being like here's my name this is what I do anyway um I did want to talk about one last thing with in regards to the original musical which again was the longest running show on Broadway until 2006. it

26:27 beat Chorus Line in 97 um for longest running show and held the title until it closed in until no until Phantom took over because I don't know I don't oh they closed in 2000 so I had six years where it was still the longest running show that had ever been and then Phantom took over no six and Phantom is still running crazy um go see that go see that episode in our original run of uh showcase this show Ard or like opened in major cities around the world and then like because of that like if they became they had such long engagements that those cities then became like Staples for World Musical things tourism premieres yeah so like Sydney Berlin

27:14 um there are like other ones I can't think of off the top of my head but they were there like now Staples to have musicals perform at them because of cats which is like crazy and then the other thing is like the cats so Cameron McIntosh when they finally were like tours are gonna happen they they had such strict rules that the regional theaters had to meet these certain like requirements because they wanted the show to match nearly exactly to what was on Broadway Mary Hamilton right now like when Hamilton took but right when Hamilton tours but an even more extreme version because at this point theater was like Live Theater was that that's true and it's kind of like weakest point in recent memory probably um in terms of like box office and so these show these theaters knew that if

28:00 they brought cats in that they would like make a ton of money off of it but they had to like do all of these crazy updates to their stages but you're saying that this is this is not just on the national tour you expect it to be the Broadway show taken somewhere else you're talking about like this is the government does cats and like they have to do it to these specifications even though it's their production of cats no I'm talking about the tour gotcha yeah because I guess tours before this point like touring as a concept of Broadway had was already dying like it was already on its way out like viewers National tours weren't really happening nobody was going to see them because the product you were getting was so weakened from the original version that no one was enjoying what they were getting so

28:46 that's why Cameron was like if you're going to if we are going to take our show to your city you have to upgrade your theater to such an extreme degree that we are basically able to put on the Broadway version in your hometown so it almost like came up with the model of not what we now expect from a Broadway tour wow 100 it's crazy it's crazy um so I guess good job again this is all like everything comes at a price wait before we go to the movie I have to tell you the criticisms that I read of the stage play which one is that Elaine Stritch walked out and told an actor not to touch her when it came up the aisle and two I just want to read verbatim this quote from Stephen Sondheim who is

29:33 probably Andrew Lloyd Webber's foil in the world truly quote I remember going to cats and wondering why they didn't just stack five million dollars on the stage it is Weber and Sondheim both born on March 22nd which is also my birthday hello hello fully intertwined celestially it's us you know us uh Aries Pisces cusp babies um truly Andrew Lloyd Webber is like style over substance and Sondheim is the substance over style like argument um that'll carry on till the end of time and Broadway people love Sondheim and I think normies love Android whatever

30:20 that's I just think the general public loves Weber you gotta School of Rock he sure did God bless um okay we gotta get into this movie and then we'll save we'll save the criticism and commentary of the movie after we are done discussing what what is the movie he was I'm going to talk about I love my Wikipedia little summary director Tom Hooper who had previously won an Oscar for best director for The King's Speech remember that this is less than 10 years later wait didn't he win one for Les Mis too or did he not no he was just he was nominal he was nominated okay

31:06 interesting and Les Mis was nominated for best picture um screenplay was Mike or I'm sorry Lee Hall and Tom Hooper which screenplay okay car and yeah beautiful ghost that was Taylor Swift that's her fault so oh my God cast is James Corden uh Dame Judy Dench Jason Derulo Idris Elba uh uh uh who's Hudson Jennifer

32:00 who's never done anything before but I think she's got potentially because she has some great potential Ian McKellen Taylor Swift Rebel Wilson and introducing Francesca Hayward as Victoria there are two Academy Award winners in that lineup Dame Judy Dench has won an Academy Award Jennifer Hudson has won an award an Academy Award and Ian McKellen has been nominated for an Academy Award okay the cinematographer is Christopher Ross the editor is Melanie Ann Oliver uh the production was by working title and the distributor was Universal Pictures it was released on December 20th 2019 uh in both the United Kingdom and the United States its run time is 110 minutes

32:45 which is still like 30 minutes shy of what the original musical is which is even crazier to think about the budget is 80 to 100 million ish and its box office is 75.5 million dollars officially a flop officially a flop officially a cat a cat flap yeah as big as Jason Derulo uh walking through a door flop they the special effects team has talked about how they spent six months working on the two and a half minute original trailer and then we're given four months to do the rest of the 107.5 minutes of the film so the and this is the same team that

33:31 did the Sonic redo they had to go back and do sonic sonic company the cartoon these people they were like articles in like uh Vanity Fair and The Hollywood Reporter these special effects animators they were basically sleeping at their desks because they were working 90 hour work weeks and like Tom Hooper was so horrible to them because he doesn't understand how it's done that he was just like this looks bad do it correctly and there's like no it's so everything about this is bad I want to say that I'm sure that those people are really skilled if you gave them a good idea I won't be very clear about that very

34:19 clear this is not that two and a half minutes for six months and then four months for the I can't even um we always love to do this um Anne Hathaway was originally considered for a role Rihanna was considered for role I do not know which roles they were concerned for I would assume Anne Hathaway was probably considered for Chris Maybe Taylor Swift yeah in the Taylor Swift role but grazabella I would I wonder if they would have gone there Isabella is interesting because I mean there was a period of time where we too shunned Anne Hathaway for winning for Les Mis ER she is kind of a former glamor cat yeah and that there was like no real

35:04 reason why we like hated her as a society because she like wanted to win an Oscar and then did and was like oh my dreams came true um one of the big changes from the stage to the the movie was that uh old Deuteronomy which is always a man was portrayed by uh Dame Judy who is a woman no longer sings we love speaking in Rhythm you know um for minutes at a time give me more minutes of people just I believe that Dame Judy Dench was like I want to honor my good friend T.S eliot's work and recite this poetry as

35:50 it was meant to be my young lover TSI okay well here's the T here's the T on Miss Judy bench Judy Dench was originally cast in the West End as grizzabella but she broke her foot and so had to step out and Elaine page came in and filled in wait okay we can't talk about it because you have facts but like can Judy Dench sing is that well she I I want to say in her Heyday she probably could have but I mean she was in nine she did Folly Berger but that was also kind of like a singing speaking so she can sing and chose not to well memory also was a song that was not finalized until the previews of the original one run but if you wait fast

36:37 as that I I have a hard time believing that it was never the 11 o'clock number right I mean yeah so she must have been able to sing quite well at one point so here's the deal I'm coming for Judy Dench and Molly will sacrifice herself I will sacrifice myself she phoned it in and whatever you could say about the rest of the performers in this movie it is not that they phoned it in she is the only person on that screen who is truly not trying I mean if you think about it they asked Juliet I won't say Taylor Swift also doesn't try and I but I don't know if that's because she is able to do I want

37:23 to finish 100 but she's giving more than Judy Jeremy Irons Christopher Plummer Jeffrey Rush uh John Cleese uh Michael Cain and Michael gambin which are all considered good we're all considered for old Deuteronomy and that's when they went with June Judy Dench Hugh Jackman was also considered at one point I don't know for what cavity would be my guess yeah um this would be the Ian McAllen role that would have been fun I yeah um it did win some awards we we must talk about the awards that it did win um let's start with be the nominations that received it was nominated for best song written for visual media at the Grammys

38:11 for beautiful ghosts it was nominated for best original song at the Golden Globes for beautiful ghosts Ellie is giving a thumbs down just a really bad song in general um it did win we got it we gotta love what it won it won worst picture at the golden raspberries the one worse director it won worst supporting actor for James Corden it won worst supporting actress for Rebel Wilson it won worst screen combo which was the at least find it as the combo of um the peep the people the human people in the animated fur and it won worse screenplay uh worst actress it was also Francesca Hayward was also nominated as worst actress which I'm not fair that's not fair this was her first movie but also that was

38:57 such an unjust like underserved character that like it it was unfair to her because I felt like she had all the pressure in the world because it was like introducing Francesca but like a thing as a okay we're supporting actress was also um oh I don't remember who now somebody else was nominated for sporting Kayla and worst screen combo was Jason Derulo and his edited out bulge [Music] thank you [Music]

39:49 I am going to start off this conversation by saying girl I'm 46 minutes start the conversation did you could you hit record actually RJ [Laughter] oh we should probably press record oh my God I would like to say that I think this film while not good in any way anyway I think this film makes variable choices and I think for that I still respect it more than another film will we we will be watching in the coming few months oh oh because it's so it's like the thing of like a

40:37 movie that is so big and it like flops so hard is still more exciting than a movie that's like expensive but just like middle of the road and like kind of doesn't do well it's like well I don't that's not as exciting not exciting it's not a train wreck it's just like a fender bender like I want to see the train wreck happen in real life um again that being said it is it's not good this is a bad movie um and I understand why people are like it's a cult classic because that's I think that's the only way to enjoy yeah it's the only way to enjoy it is like to have a sense of like irony in watching it like this is a bit me watching cats can I tell you my hot take as a first

41:23 time Watcher of course I would I want Molly this is what I I dream of Molly getting on and saying I actually think it's good I would be floored I can't wait whatever you have to say I'm excited for it's not that bad thing I I don't think it's good but right having spent like two years now since it came out consuming content about it being this like hellscape of a movie I was like this is a slightly boring musical once you're used to the the horror of the CGI yeah which is like yeah and I had seen enough like video analysis of it that I had I had my eyes

42:10 had become accustomed just a movie with quite slow music at the end of the day I think is what it is yeah because we said like the one upbeat song is so when it finally happens you're like oh we're moving yeah I know that people have said this like cult classic where they think it's gonna be like the room or like Rocky Horror right well there will be midnight screenings and I don't think this is Rocky Horror level I mean there's excitement in Rocky Horror you know what I mean it's also a good movie I'm not yeah they're different things right but like I just don't know I don't know that I can see myself at a midnight screening of this in 15 years screaming like

42:56 shouting like being like Sidetrack in Chicago having they probably already have numbers that they pulled from it right and there's probably choreography is very surprising I can see in that environment in which like that's already the thing that we're doing but like I don't know that this is gonna become a cult classic I challenge that a little bit don't be curious once you start listening to a beautiful ghost it's like okay well this isn't like Rowdy like you know like rowdy RJ your initial thoughts your initial review honestly like the first thing

43:42 that I immediately thought of when I watched cats the first time the first time okay how big are these cats oh my God how big are the cats how big is the world it was like they clearly I don't know like they like Googled Force perspective I'm like yeah that's probably close enough to be big there's a shot where Jason Derulo is barely taller than a milk bottle and then like two seconds later he's like the third of the size of a doorway yeah yeah like it was weird it was when they were interacting with doors that I was like okay hold on and I was like either either the the CGI Department was just told look we have too much to do don't even worry about it don't even worry

44:28 about it somebody tried too hard to the level where it got so confusing that no one could understand it anymore absolutely foreign [Music] Jason Derulo is the best part of this movie Molly I had a note okay so when we were tasked to make notes I was really focused on individual performances and I said that Jason Derulo does such a great job as an ensemble player oh my God he is so happy to be a chorus boy when I saw him in the background of Mr

45:14 Mistoffelees and every other celebrity in this movie was like not added me out onto that stupid boat yeah I'm not sticking around and Jason Derulo was like I'll do it I'll do it I want to be a Mr Mistoffelees and his his enthusiasm and his willingness to be a team player has fully changed my perspective on him I I like that narrative in my mind I was like my cavity was like I don't see rub Dum Tugger as competition so I'm not gonna kidnap him whatever he it's it's obviously not gonna be 100 and this is not an original this is something a lot of people have said that the boat thing was obviously invented because all these people were like I am too famous to be in all of the it Ensemble numbers as as you were supposed to be I think I didn't

45:59 know that I think it has to be or something like half invented this is what I looked up because I was like what is hap what is different because like there are obviously things that have to be different but I I wasn't sure on the specifics so the boat thing in Gus's original song from the original version which one is Gus Gus is the theater cat he does this whole they basically perform one of the roles that he like played in his and it's this whole thing with the character growl tiger and he's like walked off the plane oh so they used that entire idea and then that's what I was confused I was like who is growl Thai why are we introducing that green players very confusing and you

46:46 can't understand them I almost had to turn on subtitles um I would also like to say the mccavity disappearing people that is not a thing in the movie in the show in the Show mccavity Steals old Deuteronomy we do not know why and comes out dressed as old Deuteronomy in order to take their place and then is revealed as not old Deuteronomy but Idris Elba serving Judy Dench what a missed opportunity he would have been game for that I am old Deuteronomy

47:38 oh my god well I am going to start Judy Dench I just love that we started off this revival Strong by being a stage absolutely and that's the that's the content people are here so first your memory dog and say a cat is not a dog [Music]

48:29 and then James Corden almost immediately afterward is the worst way to start this movie I think so here's my thing about that I agree I think that the movie would appear a lot better if those weren't the things that we started with but I do believe that Rebel Wilson and James Corden were doing what was asked of them do you know what I mean like I think that they did a bad job but but I think the job itself was bad instead and this is so here's here's my thing I think Tom Hooper hates musicals but they keep hiring him to direct them yes and I don't know why this is this is not an original thought it's something that in both um sideways video and

49:14 Lindsay Ellis's videos on YouTube where they analyze cats they talk about this how they keep cutting away in those songs to like bits that aren't in the music yes yeah it cuts the music and the thing that that makes me mad as a musical theater person is that music jokes are so funny right when you can get the pacing of a joke in a song itself it's like so satisfying and so to have somebody be like this song's too boring I'm just gonna interrupt it with some bits that are making fun of the movie that's the other problem is that the way to do this is Whole Hog non-ironic we're doing cats right having jokes in cats that are like cat we're

49:59 doing cats yeah we don't make those jokes we make those jokes you know what I mean and so it's like a bad choice dramaturgically it's a bad choice musically but Rebel Wilson was directed to like do something and it's not her fault that then they undercut the entire concept of a musical I really don't have problems with the cat it's I I mean I have problems with the cast but I have problems with like the what they were given to do because again like those those improved bits that Rebel and J James do and literally no one else does these yeah they are so out of left field and they're too the other thing too is like they specifically set this show in the 1930s

50:46 they were like it is in 1932. that is the year we are in that feels what it is like just like the car and the bag and the lady with the shoes and the whole thing and so then to have like this modern like that is a modern style of comedy and like the rest of the show doesn't it does not they don't gel in any way and they just like detract maybe it's brechtian maybe Tom who oh no not the school of wrecked and theater of alienation Tom Hooper you didn't understand brecht um I do want to though give a shout out to a micro moment in one of Rebel Wilson's bits that is undercutting Jason Derulo the best part of this musical and so there's a part where it sniffs to him or

51:32 sorry I'm I'm getting out on the joke it cuts to them and she says something about him being neutered and like sniffing right and the guy who is like one of the dancers who's kind of a principal in it who is like stuck standing next to her gives this face of like oh should she have said that that is like that's like him at first continuing to fully commit to his craft as he is meant to do his musical theater actor but there's just like a half second you can catch of him being like you're not gonna put that in it this will be a blooper for sure the thing is though the the bit that she does right after this where she's like I

52:17 could do that too and then she starts dancing she's talking to that same cat but for some reason he's behind a post so he's not in the shot to animate him I think that I was like okay there's clearly supposed to be someone else here but it's just her oh my God and the yes the interrupting bits and the like so like knowing jokes because James Corden and rebel both do it at the boat when James Corden was like you can't really rhyme that with that to um the [ __ ] what's his name growl tiger he was like that doesn't really attempts he can't rhyme

53:12 such a universal joke that we all appreciate I love it before I before we leave Rebel though I will say that the entire movie well her her number when she was it's the worst number in the show and we start and it starts with the movie Lucifer Jones is also really irritating but I think he does a little bit better but like hers is just she should not have been cast in this role it is so miscast yeah she sounds like a girl who finally got a speaking role at a high school theater show right this girl finally was like I'm gonna be one of the pick a little talk a little ladies so I am going to give it my all and like just full breathy singing But

53:58 like full body movements that don't really match the sounds that you're making out of your mouth so I'm like are you overworking or are you not working enough I can't tell also how small are these roaches and these mice they're literally they're like flea sizes I'm like we did not and the roaches the faces of the Showgirls and the roaches were so bad and so discolored from the rest of the roach body and this is again not credit to me but sideways pointed out that they are tapping not in rhythm with the song oh No which is because they did not just copy pasted they didn't curse the music and like get it all in a time and then sing it together the way that one does a

54:45 musical but instead Tom Hooper because he hates musicals was like I'll just let them interpret it in whatever way and then the orchestra will have to learn how to play at whatever Pace the actor has made up I will also say this one thing also from sideways in defense of Rebel Wilson she's not a great singer we all know that but apparently the middle Harmony Line is mislabeled in the cat's score as the melody and that's so that's what they gave Rebel Wilson so she was singing Harmony the entire why she sounds so weird is that she is singing a Harmony Line with nobody so she's not great but also she was not set up to succeed I actually don't have I mean I don't think she's like a good singer but I don't I don't

55:31 I have less of a bar for like you have to be a good singer to be a musical I I just don't think that's like unnecessary I mean it's Cinema is not about like the skill of song it is about like the storytelling and like if it's carried off well and I just don't think her you don't they hired her for what she like she does that so that is her comment that is what we all know her to do Fat Amy the whole thing bridesmaids all of it and like that does not fit she's not impressed yeah she is she's the sister of the roommate her and the like guy from uh with Matt Lucas I thought you thought Melissa McCarthy was uh Rebel Wilson no no no but they do have a similar like it it's the very like it's fine I won't talk about that but yes

56:17 there are great women is what you're saying yeah look at how fat we are and like isn't it it's the grotesque and it's like well is that I don't know it's fine the point I'm trying to think is that she's bad and it's a real shame that we have to start the movie with this like seven minute song We introduce it now and we say everyone please listen to a snippet revolution's horrible let's plop it in here why not when the days hustle and bustle is done then the Gumby cats work these but hardly be gone I think that the Cockroaches need employment to prevent them from idle and want to destroy them

57:03 so I thought from that lot of disorderly loud for Boy Scouts with a purpose in life and a good teacher too and I've even creative [Music] okay Victoria does not do a bad job Francesco does not do a bad job I really just think that they wrote Victoria clearly as like uh this is a person that's standing for the audience because they're all explaining the story of the genitals cats the jellicle choice the instructions for the game it's all directed to her

57:50 but then they kind of plop in when she ends up being the person that discovers grizzabella and tries to like empathize with her by trying to be like I was abandoned too and then that leads into beautiful ghosts which just feels like you it feels like all of a sudden you just insert her into a story which we just spent 40 minutes of the movie just doing a roll call of all the other cats so there was like nothing built it's as if you were literally like don't forget she got abandoned hold on to that note well we gotta watch James Ford and roll off a garbage can she says in beautiful ghosts that she for she's now forgotten about that time and it was 56 minutes ago that it happened it's so

58:37 it is so first of all ghosts is a song that is so clearly written so that it can be nominated for an Academy Award yeah it does not fit with any of the other songs in the show it is the same problem that all the new songs in the new Beauty and the Beast live action movie do where it's like this doesn't fit with the original music yeah well I do because it's only one song it's even more glaring yeah I will say though that like this is definitely a new standard in like new movie musicals right like there has to be a original an original song in the movie somehow so that way this movie can be nominated for a song in the Oscars so other other movies will do it in a different way where they will just write

59:22 a completely original pop song and then like underscore it into a scene but it's hard when it's a movie musical because you do have to justify it into the world well and and the rules for the Academy Awards are so strict now they have they cannot play over the credits they have to play over the film that's why sometimes you'll just hear like that's right that's why in the new Lion King Spirit had its own like sequence the Beyonce song spirit because that had to be in the movie so they had to like create this entire sequence around like a leaf falling out of a butt and like doing a whole travel horrible but that's what happened I was gonna say RJ as you were talking at first I was gonna be like well I guess so if you're gonna have Victoria as the protagonist you have to give her a song but one she's

1:00:09 still not the protagonist she's not the person who makes a change yeah um and two what would have made more sense would be to have Victoria as the dance protagonist and then grizzabella as the singing protagonist in a way right so like you would understand like oh okay so like her job is to be the dance through line and then like think about that but that makes more sense that like yeah those are the through lines which is what she is in the show she is the like main dancer in the show Victoria the white cat that is like her oh yeah because I saw I saw a commentary that was just like she's just a part of the chorus and she so she is the person she's sorry the cat anyone she's

1:00:54 she is the Hutch's grizzabella when she keeps being like that is not the cat she is not that cat she is in the show she's not that cat I thought she was that is not the cat that's not the reporting that I saw Victoria is the cat who is like the principal chorus female cat it's hard to say in a show like cats who is the principal dancer because like everyone's over there all just like doing they're all dancing the entire Mr Mustafa leaves a song on stage is like truly incredible and he does like high kicks and acrobatics and it's a whole thing so it's hard to be like she is the principal dancer but she is like very prominently featured as like one of the main dancers of every cat's iteration

1:01:41 ever and then this one they were like also she can sing the reason I don't like this song is because she's not a Jellico cat she hasn't become a jellicle cat and the only reason you get a song is if you're singing for the jellicle ball I mean like technically I think she helps hat because now she's joined the ghosts which I don't Taylor Swift explain yourself because I have all these notes about this Theology of the cats Universe right and we have a somewhat coherent theology moon is cat God and cold Deuteronomy is the cult leader and we have our ritual Evangelical cats right at pope then but then all of a sudden she's like I'll dance

1:02:27 with these beautiful ghosts like like the beginning of the song is like the beautiful ghost or her memory or like or I guess what she didn't have because her memory is not good I'm getting confused even just thinking about it but then she's like oh but I but like now I don't have to be alone because I almost was for literally two seconds she immediately finds angelical cats as soon as she's abandoned there's there's no period of time in which Victoria has to wander the streets a lot yeah and then she's like oh so this is my consolation is that at least now I'm angelical cat right but like she says she calls them beautiful ghosts and then like old Deuteronomy yes ands it later and also calls them beautiful ghosts and in what way I love older Germany when when they

1:03:15 were in Second City I really love she's so funny really yeah it was better than her singing career for sure and actually is a new uh he just is a featured actress now on Saturday Night Live oh wow that's incredible in what way explain to me in what way these cats are ghosts in what way are they ghosts how does that make sense what does this metaphor mean how does it play into the theology Universe where where in this song where is the through line of the synthesizer which is like in every other song I cannot even get into the synth because like you said this is Okay and like there are gonna be people out there who are like just because the

1:04:01 movie is set in this time period doesn't mean the music has to be blah blah blah I don't care I am a curmudgeon if I am hearing since I better be in the 80s plus because I don't want it seems frustrating especially because the the the show on Broadway is so it is so 80s it is so late 70s early 80s it is leg warmers it is unitards it is synth it is big hair that they fashion the hair to look like ears they're not actual ears they're just like molding the hair it's incredibly 80s and that's like kind of the the whole thing about it is it's so of its time that it's like when you go see cats on stage you are walking back into the 80s so to have forcefully been

1:04:47 like it is now the 30s but then like still do this music in the way that it is the I there were so many bad decisions made creating this film no one talked to each other everyone had to be in a different continent making decisions like the special effects team the the Wardrobe Department ever ever I guess there's not a wardrobe Department technically well you know they still had to get those green bodies suits with the pink absolutely yeah all those I wanted was to be wanted too young to wonder London streets alone wanted

1:05:34 to nothing at least you have something to cling to visions of dancing rules I'll never get let into [Music] and the memories were lost long ago but at least you have beautiful ghosts [Music] I think we've spent a lot of time talking about the things that are bad which is fair but there are things that are good and I'm gonna start by saying that sir Ian McKellen gets the prize for

1:06:20 not realizing what movie he was in because he definitely thought that he was in a BBC Masterpiece Masterpiece class Masterpiece classic and not realizing oh you're gonna do what to my body you're gonna you're gonna surround me with what cats okay got it he was giving such an honest performance and I was like oh my God he just he saved so he saved the day honestly so good it's actually criminal I agree that he's great I disagree that he saved the day one I mean there was really it's moot point to say at this at that point in the movie I was so bored that I was like okay yeah I think I'd

1:07:05 like this if I were in a theater but like I he's not pulling me back and the person who does save the musical is the gay train conductor and does a song in Rhythm for once in this stupid musical I was so bored and this man came out and was like hello and I was like thank you thank you like full gay Fantasia like there is there is a little bit of a joke that Andrew Lloyd Webber is you know whatever but I could fully tell that this was his like full creation of like the perfect man exists and his name is the railway cat skimmel Shanks that song

1:07:53 is like honestly probably the best song or production in the movie is that what I want to say I don't know you've seen the production no I'm in the movie I think it's the best song in not song but like number I think it's the best number production of a musical number it's it's it makes you feel the most like you're watching a music it's the one they would play at side tracks on musical Mondays yeah if they wanted to go for a good one yeah yeah yeah yeah not a one where they yell out and Rebel Wilson will get the napkins thrown in there and then skibble Shanks will be everybody everyone dancing yeah totally sneaks is great uh we gotta we gotta listen to some of that rail that tap tap tippity tap

1:08:53 [Music] away away [Music] I've never wanted to be railed as hard oh my God as I have been since gimbal Shanks because I didn't have quite a sexual of a reading as the two of you seem to have everyone this is gay Twitter okay what's the like it's the suspenders over the one assumes there are probably nipples under the fur yes

1:09:40 speaking of homo eroticism by the way I while watching it had a note that was like what is why is everyone in love with Victoria like what is this adding to the plot that Everyone likes Victoria and then I learned by watching Lindsay Ellis's video that it's because Mr Mistoffelees and Rum Tum Tugger are supposed to have like a somewhat coded fling going on in the original Musical and they had to like know homo them really hard apparently so they were like oh we have to show them both liking a lady cat just so that nobody uh maybe gets the wrong impression that any of these cats could like someone of the same gender I mean could you imagine a homosexual in theater production well in the 80s yeah that gays didn't exist yet so yeah there are two cats that you just

1:10:26 mentioned that we do have to shout out as I think I think my favorite character in the show is Mr Mistoffelees no I really really the guy who plays really well Molly the guy Mr mercifully's Lori is a very attractive actor and he plays young will Shakespeare the TNT TNT when you say your favorite in the show you mean the original stage musical but you're not referring to them in this film that is he is my favorite part bizarre what are you in the hearing about it I have a thing and this is what I've recently discovered in the past year as I've gotten really into K-pop I have a

1:11:12 thing for soft Boy energy anything that gives me a man who is very unsure of himself and very trepidatious anything in that realm I am like I don't like fall in love I I don't fall in lust I fall in love like I'm just like I want you be your parent so so you also though love music that is slow and plotting that that's like your jam in terms of a musical theater number something just interrupts itself constantly you've never pictured it's not how it is for minutes on end no it's like nearly exactly how it is oh really so in the in the original show

1:11:59 they use Mr mercifulis's song as the way to get back old dude he brings back old dude in the show and he has the audience has to sing along the whole time surely part of this I I will give this uh just adaptation is hard credit that like probably there's some stage magic right and like obviously stage magic is not interesting in a movie so that is good ass off while they sing like the magic okay it's like slow song in which no to wait for nothing to happen sort of reminiscent of Ian McKellen's other roles and waiting for good dough [Applause]

1:12:46 theater references I yes I don't I don't think I'm trying to remember the show now I don't think they make the like I don't think that's a thing like the like oh it didn't happen or whatever like I think it does like but it's not to the really bizarre extent that it is in this film where it's like played for Laughs every time as if anyone would think it's fun every single person is just rolling on the floor oh my gosh my favorite is the cats just being like peek behind the pillow nope she's not there are we are we babies it's like a children's show where they were like we didn't script out quite enough so we need to Pat another three

1:13:32 minutes into the Billy's not good at night yeah so just keep looking around on the pillow and uh you know really live in the moment [Music] magical names [Music] but you are right Molly that Rum Tum Tugger is probably between rum tongue Tugger and what's the train conductor's name

1:14:18 symbol Shanks I think skimble Shanks I felt it more on an emotional level because I needed it so bad at that point in the musical like surprised you it was like we're thirsty in the desert for a cup of water he was my Oasis in a desert um but I think that Jason Derulo's rum tongue Tugger and then and then his serving chorus member later on is is maybe I hardly know her okay okay let's talk about grizzabella I think we've danced around to actually talk about grizzabella we have discussed that this is essentially the only dramatic kind of part of the of the movie I do

1:15:05 want to say that the lore of grizzabella as like you know like a has been old glamor cat I think although Jennifer Hudson did a great job with the song and I think like we just we just watched respect this year too and Jennifer yes she is a singer like and I think people will be like this yeah she's a singer first but she's actively performing when she said we actually I really don't think she's performed she's acted more than in this role I'm literally not good yes this is the most that she's acted and I think it's serves the purpose I think but I do think that grizzabella is supposed to be like this old has been washed up energy that I just feel like Jennifer Hudson she is still in her prime like in the culture and also in

1:15:52 her voice um I I posted this link that Adam actually shared when Jennifer Holliday performed in this year's Tony Awards uh she's saying and I'm telling you I'm not going someone on Twitter posted a full thread of like this is why this is important because Jennifer Holliday after and I'm telling you I'm not going after a Dream Girls didn't really have a successful career um she kind of like you know did concerts of the song and this was kind of like a way for her to be like look at what the Broadway community did to me but I'm still here that kind of feeling that I was like I almost wish Jennifer Holliday saying memory like that feeling of just like I still have something left in me

1:16:38 um which I mean like Jennifer Hudson definitely like she's she's older now since we like first saw her when she won her Oscar for dream girls like she's definitely has matured but I feel like she still has so much more and she's still in her prime that I feel like this role could have been better served if it was a a culturally known actress or performer that's like an actual grizzabella in real life I think Jennifer's fine I think she's I think she's good I don't think she's like doing a bad job and the vocal performance is amazing she's I mean Super wow yeah it's like the only she could say like well some except for maybe Judy Den Jennifer Jennifer Hudson singing Just

1:17:26 slightly above Dame Judy dench's recitation yeah [Laughter] so I'm going to insert the part that everyone loves to listen to of cats which is in the reprise of memory after she gets back up and like has been comforted and then she stands up so here is Jennifer [Music] in the Sun

1:18:11 if you touch me you'll understand [Music] here is the original Elaine page doing the belt in the 1998 films [Music] it's only [Music] me [Music] of my name [Music] is

1:18:56 [Applause] [Music] okay here is Betty Buckley who is the original grizable on Broadway

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