0:04 Wherever you're watching, welcome to Talking Business. Now, when this year's crop of university levers think back to when they started their degrees, they couldn't have dreamt of some of the changes that had impact the jobs market they'd graduate into. In less than the time of a three-year college course, we've seen the launch of Chat GPT. Predictions from the investment bank Goldman Sachs that AI would replace 300 million full-time jobs. And just in the last few weeks, Goldman's revealed new research that young tech workers are losing out to machines more quickly than anyone else. It's a trend they've also noticed that the world's biggest professional network, LinkedIn. >> In the last year, hiring rates for entry level work uh by new grads has slowed by
0:50 over 20%. And that's the case for both the US and the UK. There is uncertainty around trade policy and tariffs, but there are other things that are also making them uncertain. The interest rate environment is changing. The other factor that I think is really important is just what does AI mean for the labor force. So imagine if you will that suddenly companies are looking at this potential productivity tool and wondering exactly how much they can rely on it to do uh simple tasks, maybe even more complex tasks. and they're figuring it out. >> Another shift that some have noticed is the drop off in job adverts that require an expensive college degree. Last year on the job site, Indeed, a majority of new roles didn't require any formal
1:36 education qualifications at all. The number of jobs that specified candidates needed a degree fell by 3%. And that fall came in more than eight out of 10 occupations. As both an economist and a mom about to send her own child off to college, I think it's fair to say that the advantages to college are still there. You still see that people who go to college um over the lifetime of their career typically earn more, but increasingly there is a lot to offer um if kids take a route of not going to college. So there's a huge demand that we see um actually globally now for people who have what we call trades experience. So whether you're an electrician, a welder, a plumber, a
2:23 machine tooler, there's huge demand for skilled labor in that set which doesn't necessarily require a college degree. >> So what does LinkedIn's data suggest graduates should do? If I were to give advice right now to someone who's graduating into this economy which is laden with uncertainty but also has a lot of potential to be really exciting and transformative um I would say don't get too attached to any particular career outcome or industry. I would encourage people to feel much more flexible about acquiring skills and experiences. One of the most interesting trends that we see in our data is the really rapid rise of people starting their own business. We've seen a 60% increase in people starting their
3:11 own business in the last year and a three-fold increase overall in the last 5 years. >> My next guests are dealing with this in the real world. Oliver Dalabani is a 22-year-old from Miami. Since graduating in May, he sent out more than 200 job applications. Now he's teamed up with a friend to launch his own business. Our other guest, Simon Squib, started his own business when he was just 15 years old. He was also homeless at the time. He later sold that business to PWC before starting and investing in many other firms and growing a social media following of millions. He joins me now on the go to his next meeting. Welcome to you both to talking business. Oliver, Simon, good to have you both on the
3:57 program. And Oliver, let me start with you. It's been a pretty tough year for you. I described some of it there in the introduction. Just talk to me about the reality of the jobs market as you found it this year. >> I've been applying to hundreds and hundreds of jobs. um reaching out to friends and family, using every connection that I can, and using every creative way of reaching to these recruiters at these companies, and I rarely rarely hear back. Um sometimes I feel like maybe it's just me, maybe it's something I'm doing, but I I speak to friends from my school, from other schools, and they have the same issue, and their friends, they tell me, have the exact same issue. Simon, this is a familiar tale and it's one that's increasing um as the number of graduates
4:43 entering that job market find that the jobs they wanted don't exist. I mean, you talk to loads of young people about this, don't you? >> I've been talking about this problem for years and I've said to people many times over in the last three years, don't wait for someone to give you a job, create one for yourself. The universities have always pitched this promise that go to university, you'll get a job. And it's not true. It hasn't been for a long time. And of course with the ra rise of AI, not only does it mean there's even less jobs, it also means it's a very exciting time to start a business. It's really easy, easier than ever to start a business. >> So Oliver, tell me about your business. What are you doing? How are you making it work? And I suppose, are you glad you did it this way? >> Honestly, yeah, I'm I'm very glad I did
5:29 it this way. Um, so basically a little bit about our brand. It's a natural skincare brand um called Ancient Standard. It's based on the idea that the ingredients we use now and and the kind of the way we take care of our skin now uh we've deviated so far from how people for the past you know thousands of years have taken care of their own skin. And so we kind of want to bring that idea back um into today's world using all natural ingredients um all natural oils and kind of just bringing that idea and that knowledge um back to today's uh world. >> And in terms of how you got this business off the ground, talk to me about the journey. A lot of it we did our own like the product packaging, the
6:15 the formula, the you know the the consistency of what we wanted. Um so I'd say a lot of it is just getting step by step. I think for a lot of people they see the big picture and it kind of scares them a little bit or maybe it just seems unattainable. But I think if you think about what the next step would be, which is how we kind of approached building the brand, thinking about what I can do tomorrow or one more thing I could add for the brand um or to get started on building the brand. I think if you think step by step, it makes it a lot easier and a lot more attainable to build a business that way. And and that's what we've been doing in my experience, me and my partner. And it's I mean, you know, it's it's real. We we have it now. It's a physical thing.
7:02 >> Yeah, it exists. It's up and running. And Simon, that's sort of the problem, isn't it? People maybe fear too many steps ahead. Rather than taking that first step, that little step, whatever it is, they worry about the end goal before they've even got started, don't they? >> I I think yeah, the key to starting a business is I think not wanting to start a business, but needing to start a business. And so, a lot of people, one of the problems they have is they have they have actually too many options. That's definitely one of the problems, but the other problem is they don't see it as like one step at a time. So get one customer who will pay you. Just have proof of concept. And it's much easier than you think to get that. If you pitch an idea to someone, they can say yes to being your client. And that's what you need. You just need one client most of the time. And if you do that, you almost get a sense of belief, a realization
7:48 that your idea can come to life. But you have to take risk in life. I mean, otherwise, you know, if you don't take risk, you don't get luck. And without luck, you you won't succeed. And so you need a bit of bad luck sometimes where you can't get the job because then your bad luck will lead to good luck because you'll have to start something on your own. Then you have to ask someone to be your customer to get the good luck that they say yes. And so it's really just a process. And I think a lot of people in the world today are are thinking it's hard to start a business and they think it's easier to get a job. But the reality is today it's the opposite. You know when you work for yourself it's hard at the beginning but gets easier over time and it's only hard because you're learning things. Whereas when you're working for someone else, it's easy at the beginning but gets harder over time as your bosses change, as the market changes, people could just fire you at any second. I think this is this is entrepreneurship's time and it's a
8:34 time for people to create their own jobs. >> The word risk is really important there because maybe working for someone else, what you're doing is outsourcing the risk. The risk that it might all be a failure, the risk that there might be a lot of cost. The risk that you may not get any customers, >> but you're not you're not really outsourcing the risk. You're you're you're you're basically taking the choice out of your hands and giving it to your boss or to his boss's boss to work for someone else. If you think working for yourself is more risky than working for yourself than working for someone else, then you are you are you are deluding yourself in this day and age. Someone today is employing AI into their company and they're going to cut thousands of workers today and that could be you. So you don't have control and you could spend five t years working at a company and because you haven't got any equity in the brand that you're
9:21 working on, you have no safety net. >> Um Oliver Simon's talking about sort of belief but also just that this is well we should consider you know going it alone being the least risky option. Is that how you saw it when you were starting the business this year? Um, you know, I I did have that realization um the other day actually that I think a lot of people enjoy, you know, working for other companies or working for someone else because they don't necessarily have to feel that risk or feel um, you know, if something were to go wrong, it's it's not necessarily on them always. Um, and so I realized that a lot of people uh pick up jobs for that feeling um of of having to have any kind of risk off their shoulders. And I I I
10:08 do agree with what Simon's saying. Um, it it does feel a little bit risky, but my mindset with this whole thing was that I I'm okay if this thing fails as long as I know I took it as far as I could because then I would have, you know, no doubt in myself. Um, and I guess that's just another explanation for belief. >> Simon, what advice would you have for Oliver right now? You know, setting up his own firm this year. How does he see this through? How do you stay the course? >> I um I think the way he's doing it is quite right. He he basically is is building something he enjoys. I think the word fun is not said enough in business. You've got to enjoy it. I I I believe a purpose matters in this day and age. If I look at young people today, a lot of people say young people are lazy. That's not true. Young people
10:53 today, what I've noticed is they want a purpose. They want a reason to do the business beyond just making money. They want to make money, but they want to fix the world's problems. So, I think having a purpose that solves a problem for people, which again, I I think, you know, that that to me is what keeps me going. I want to fix the education system. I want to make sure that people know what they're capable of. You know, opportunity is is not evenly distributed, but talent is. And I want to change it so that opportunity is equally distributed. And that motivates me. and that motivates my team. >> Looking back, Oliver, would you pursue the same route again? And and by that I mean sort of the college education and then seeking a graduate job. You know, we said at the start of this that fewer and fewer job ads now are requiring sort of formal educational qualifications.
11:40 They're looking at life experience. Would you do it again? And the cost that goes with college, do you think that was worth it? There were some things that I gained from college that were priceless, you know, like my my friends or the professors, you know, that I got to meet and that got to help me through college. But I think the price that I paid for what for what I had learned, I don't think I had to pay. I think a lot of this information now is available and it's very organized and there's you know a lot of a lot of these corporations put out classes or they create you know 10 week 20we classes that you can learn a lot of the technical skills. Um I think you know I'll credit college that it it definitely gave me a way of thinking but then again like I don't think I needed to pay that much to have that that that
12:29 way of thought. I think that would have also come naturally through life experience or through you know starting my own business. We sometimes have something called survival bias, right? So yeah, when people go to university and then they describe the experience of university, it's like anything. You will always get something from doing something, but it doesn't mean it's worth. I mean, in England, for example, people are getting in 50 $60,000 worth of debt. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. We need to make sure this gets through to people because the machine that is a business that is university is selling that you can get a job when you come out the other end which we know now is not true and then they also sell this friend network as if somehow the network would never be achieved if you didn't go
13:14 to university and it's not true I started a business at 15 years old I met people I made a network through building businesses other entrepreneurs clients brands I have built a network by living life. >> But all of this is about confidence and having a bit of cash to put on the line, is it? The confidence that you've got a great idea and then the money to back it up. We all need that, don't we, to start a business. >> You do not need money to start a business. This what you need is financial literacy. Th this whole thing about needing money to start a business is a narrative that is untrue and it's stopping a lot of people following their purpose. It's stopping a lot of people from even dreaming. They don't even turn on the dream mechanism. The idea I in their head doesn't even come alive because they think they need money. You
14:00 don't need money to start a business. I was 15 years old when I started a business and I had no money and I was homeless. It's very simple. You just need to understand how money works. For example, if you go to a client and you say, "I'd like to offer you a service." And then they say yes to that service. You can ask them for a 50% deposit. It's very normal in business, a 50% deposit. And then that 50% deposit, if you do it right, should cover all your costs. And then when you deliver the service, and this is what I did, when I finally delivered what I promised, I got the final 50% and that was my profit. So this whole idea you need money to start a business is it's just crazy. It's not true. You can work for a company for 10 years. You can put your heart and soul into that business and if you don't own equity in that company, they can lay you off today. That's it. All that 10 years of work to build that company up, you
14:47 don't own it. You don't own equity in it. You're out. And to me, that's the risk. you waste years of your life building something you don't own. And and and if you work for yourself, yes, there are cases where businesses fail. I've had many businesses that have failed. In fact, I would argue if my businesses hadn't failed, I wouldn't be successful today. But every single time I built a business, I own equity in that company. The time I put into that brand, I own it. So no one can get rid of me or more importantly, my ownership over that equity. And this is the important thing people need to learn within financial literacy. If you own equity somewhere, higher chance long-term of being successful. If you don't own equity, higher chance you can be cut off at any minute with nothing in return for years of hard work. >> And Oliver, a final thought from you. Look, you might find yourself in a
15:32 position like Simon to be able to start advising people on how to do it, what you've learned. What would you say to someone who's maybe looking for a job right now with a big organization in your position as you were earlier this year? What's your advice? I would say find something that you know you you find interest in or passion in and and see how far you can take that. Um see if you can turn that into a side thing at least. Um and you know continue to apply to the jobs if if that's what you feel. that you know maybe you realize that's something you want to take on more um is your side thing or if you know you want to just move into working for um another corporation. >> Oliver, best of luck with it. We will follow your journey closely. Really good
16:18 to talk to you and Simon thank you for being with us. Uh we'll let you get off to your meeting but uh joy to talk to you. Thank you Oliver and Simon. Thank you. >> Thank you so much.
